Stealing "RPG" elements from Judgement: Apocalypse --- Pawn expertise

[Lightzy]

This is something from that game which will make rimworld a million times better :>

Imagine that you have a great builder and you can choose to specialize him in defensive emplacement building (turrets, traps maybe, reinforced whatevers, reinforced electric lines, I dunno).
But that means you didn't specialize him in advanced woodworking etc.
So now you got noone who can make excellent and above rated wooden beds, tables, etc.

Thus you have a system that doesn't even require more jobs and skills be added, but through specializations, gives your playthrough a certain unique flavor.


This addition would be AMAZING for rimworld because it will slow progression down a bit, create more specialized playstyles and make pawns much more unique.



A list of specialized pawn upgrades could go like:

• Firearms Maker (The only one who can make firearms)
• Armorer (The only one who can make military grade armors such as kevlar, and the only one capable of making simple armors of superior and above quality)
  Defensive Building Specialist
• Woodcrafting Expertise (The only one who can create wood things of superior and above quality)
• Military Weapons Training (Can carry 2 weapons)
• Sniper (gets a bonus using sniper rifles). Rambo up with different specialized weapon skills
• Expert Electrician (The only one who can make solar panels, batteries etc.. If toned down, then perhaps the only one who can make more efficient, less likely to explode power lines, batteries etc
• Expert Pharmacist (The only one who can make non-herbal medicine
• Siege Engineer (The only one who can build turrets, better sandbags, mortars
• etc ( feel free to add )

This also serves to make "crafting" not the single one and only skill that does freakin everything, slows the pace of the game, offers more strategic considerations according to your current situation, makes pawns more interesting and unique, and in general is more fun.

[schizmo]

I might be into this if they were randomly assigned to pawns like traits, but the player should not be able to pick them. Pawns should have autonomy and free will, and selecting their own perks helps evolve their own personal backstory, which is part of what makes rimworld great. I would even tie them in with their history in some way, since those two aspects already help dictate skills

[Lightzy]

I might be into this if they were randomly assigned to pawns like traits, but the player should not be able to pick them. Pawns should have autonomy and free will, and selecting their own perks helps evolve their own personal backstory, which is part of what makes rimworld great. I would even tie them in with their history in some way, since those two aspects already help dictate skills

They're not picked immediately. They're picked as the pawns level up by studying, or training, or whatever.
You could even add training grounds or a library to rimworld and assign pawns to study and improve themselves like that. But the important thing is that they get a level up and can choose between different perks, and cant 'go back' and take the other one.

I think the player should pick them, both because it's more engaging, and because you basically already do the same thing in rimworld. If you get a pawn that's passable at crafting or at farming, you basically get to decide how to "train him up" by having him perform that activity. It's not a true argument to say that you don't have control of your pawns.

[schizmo]

Most actions in the game are passive, while true that you oversee them, you rarely instruct pawns to do anything. The player is the invisible hand guiding pawns by saying "hey, you should always have at least 30 simple meals" and "hey, this area here is a stockpile" and "hey, it would be cool if someone came over here and made a shirt eventually" but all of tbose things are suggestions. You tell the colony to make a shirt but it depends on the pawns who actually comes over to make the shirt, and sometimes if the short isnt finished another pawn will show up and start to make their own because the work order still exists.

You CAN specifically instruct pawns to prioritize work, overriding their autonomy when neccesary, but the game is not meant to be played like this and your average player only does this when absolutely necessary.

If players are allowed to choose the skills then it will undermine the uniqueness of the pawns, who are all supposed to have free will and backstory, and are supposed to be rendomized. This is somewhat of a roguelike game in many ways, and giving control of something like this to the player takes away from that aspect.

Don't get me wrong I think specializations are cool, but it doesn't make sense to me that the player would be allowed to choose when everything else about skills and passions has been crafted by the pawns backstory and traits

[Lightzy]

Fine, difference of opinion then.

The point is that it's a system that allows you to specialize your colony, makes you 'pick a route' in a sense, and also makes each pawn much more unique, adding RPG elements, making each playthrough more unique, and so on and so forth.
It's just winning all around I think

[schizmo]

I don't feel like it will make each playthrough unique if players are allowed to choose because most people will choose the same thing each time. If you want it to be truly "unique" each time, it should happen organically and be chosen at random, allowing the skill specializations to influence how the player chooses to use them, not the other way around.

Personally I don't like to use grenades, so I would never choose the grenade specialization on my own. But if I happened to recruit a soldier who's specialization was grenades, I would make the smart choice and give that soldier grenades to make best use of their skills. It would help me experience the game in a way that I was not previously experiencing it, because now I have to think about combat differently to incorporate grenades. I've also literally never used a Deadfall trap or an IED, so I would be even less inclined to pick any skill involving those. (I'm actually about to try to use those, because I feel like I'm missing an aspect of the game)

To be clear, I still think this is a great idea, I just feel most people have a very one-track mind when it comes to the way they play the game, myself included to be honest, so allowing them to choose will ensure that they only ever play the game in the same way each time.

BUT it's a great idea no matter which way it's implimented

[daduhweewah]

I think this would nerf the game... Everyone would make people do things that nets the most profit, and when you make them a specialist I assume they are going to automatically make high quality (exc to legen) items?

I dislike it, I wouldn't mind seeing a couple new categories, OR for tailoring, smithing, and crafting to become 3 different skills that could be different numbers. I def think that is needed, I dotn think someone should auto be the same skill level in tailoring smithing and crafting.

However, I wouldn't mind (like the first response here) if a skill was auto assigned, but I do not like the idea of having oen guy who can make certain things. I wouldn't mind if a lower skill level guy randomly got a boost in a certain production type every once in a while, like maybe a 1-3 point random boost.

Also would like the skill numbers to go up to 100, thus long games getting skill levels into the 90s or to 100 even would be making masterwork and legendary stuff more commonly, and taking longer to just have a very highly skilled individual (though for doctors I feel like I would hate this lol)

[Lightzy]

There's no strategy that way. It remains the same.  Also right now if you have a high skilled builder he'll always make superior to legendary beds. And superior and legendary everything else too.


The idea is exactly to 'nerf' the game, giving the player CHOICES to make. If to get the best defense or to get better furniture, if to give the pawn special combat perks or give him special training with woodworking, etc.

It also makes the game a lot better and more interesting, because if right now you have every solution always available to every problem, then it's the same as not having any problems.
If some solutions are blocked off and you have to decide what route to take, at least in a given moment, then it becomes a game.

For example, if you can defend your colony by making turrets, traps, legendary sniper rifles, combat drugs and armor, everything, then it's a boring game, and defending your colony becomes TOO EASY.
If however, you can't make some of those, suddenly the task of defending is a bit harder, and you have to choose your style in how to do it, and suddenly the game doesn't have to throw 400 enemies at you in order to challenge you, and the design becomes much tighter and simply better.

I think rimworld couldn't do this before when it had much less content, but now it's coming to the point where it can, possibly, restrict you from some options and you'll still have ways to accomplish what you want. The more content is added, the more restrictions and choices can be added, and make the game more fun

[Lightzy]

So, wanted a bit more discussion around this.  I wonder if it catches.
Idea is simple:

1) Pawn levels up in a profession (for example, construction), through experience or possibly through training/learning in a library or whatever.

2) Pawn can now choose one of 3 specializations: Siege engineer / Master Carpenter / whatever

3) Siege engineer can now build mortars, turrets and reinforced power lines. Nobody else can build those.  Master carpenter can achieve superior and above quality furniture, while nobody else is limited to "good", etc.

That's it. So you don't get everything easy, but have to make some choices for pawns.




Lets take another skill to examine.. Lets say.... melee combat:
Specialize in: Defensive manouvering / alpha strike / whatever
Defensive manouvering gives the pawn bonus to evading gunfire, while something else gives something else, etc.


Or possibly it doesn't have to be tied to skills. or to more than one skill. For example, a pawn with 10+ in firearms AND melee can upgrade to "multipurpose warrior", able to carry 2 weapons, one melee, one ranged.



The possibilities are endless!