[1.3] Dubs Bad Hygiene | Mint Menus/Minimap | Paint Shop | Rimkit | Skylights

Started by Dubwise, January 02, 2017, 02:52:23 PM

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faltonico

Quote from: dubwise56 on July 30, 2017, 11:52:23 PM
Quote from: faltonico on July 30, 2017, 11:19:00 PM
Quote from: dubwise56 on July 30, 2017, 09:00:30 PM
... the mod now includes a repair kit which lets you fix broken components. ...
So it is no longer compatible with Fluffy's breakdowns?

If you are running both then it works exactly the same, if you fail to maintain and get a breakdown then they will still salvage the parts if they have the repair kit equipped, its not 100% and the chance is based on the same chance as repair success
Oh nice,
I suggest you to use the worktab mod to enable one pawn or several pawns to do the repairing job without them having to do any other construction work, it is a great way to teach them construction skill as well. I also reduce the threshold for them to do maintenance to 50% or less, I haven't been feeling any pressure to upgrade my components to more durable ones with that set up.

Dubwise

Ok I read all the comments, thanks for all of the positive feedback, bug reports and suggestions. I shall now explain, in detail, my plan.

tl:dr water capacity + better central heating split off for a18 + bug fixes

First off the research for everything will all be completed by default on classic start or higher, only tribals will have to research it, it makes more sense like that because you start with air conditioning on classic starts anyway. And the stats for bathroom impressiveness will be tweaked so its easier to get the mood buffs, i was lazy and ripped off the code for bedrooms and it requires too much stuff to get a good stat so just need to tweak it, i have also done some bug fixes which probably fixed some of the bugs people have been reporting, i was tracking and fixing them on the steam version.

Water & Sewage
You have a sewage grid and capacity and a water grid and capacity, you can place the sewage outlet on rivers, lakes or oceans and it gives you capacity, you can place a sewage drain on land which has a circle that expands over time, every x00 ticks it will push some sewage into the sewage grid within that circle, the sewage grid wont change the appearance of tiles and will be displayed with an overlay by clicking on any sewage drain or outlet, a steady cell effect function on the map component will constantly reduce the sewage value in random cells, the amount reduced will be multiplied depending on the tile so water tiles will be very fast. If you deconstruct the sewage drain or outlet the sewage will clean up over time. The total value of sewage in the grid can be used to trigger incidents like bad smells or disease.

For fresh water capacity you place an inlet on rivers, lakes or oceans, or you place a water tower on land, the water grid will show you the location of ground water where the tower can be placed, for sea ice it will let you place it anywhere just to keep it simple. The ground water isn't used up and does not need replenishing from rain or rivers, and no units of water are tracked or stored in tanks. The important thing will be to avoid overlapping water intake with sewage outflow, which will pollute the water and then trigger bad smells or disease. The water treatment system will then become useful as a way to convert sewage capacity back into water capacity, to balance that out it will need to be very large, smelly and use lots of power.

Once all of that is done the mod should be somewhere between the sims and sim city, sims scale hygiene and bladder needs with sim city scale water and sewage capacity, i prefer that kind of setup over a survival game style where you have to collect every drop of water using rain collectors and such, and its the easiest way to get it working on all biomes.

Central heating
The radiators in the current version actually have a pretty serious bug when it comes to checking room size, the bigger the room the less units of heat they use because i missed out a divide by cell count, but that's all fixed now because i have re-coded the whole thing.

Instead of being units of heat that get pushed around, its more like the sewage with a percentage capacity, the radiators then have a flat heating rate that is multiplied by the current capacity on the pipes, so 50% capacity means the heaters heat output is halved. They also take time to heat up and cool down, so when a heater is turned on the radiators quickly heat up to the current capacity, then when heaters are turned off it slowly floats down to 0. The immersion heater has a power setting of 250w to 3000w in steps, I added a thermostat which you place in any rooms that are critical or central to your base, you plumb them in and set a minimum temp, when the rooms temp falls below the minimum it will turn on any immersion heaters on that plumbing network until the target temp is reached.

This new setup makes it much easier to check whats going on at a glance, and is obviously extremely efficient because its just short spikes of power to reheat all of the radiators on demand, then they continue to produce heat on their own, and if you want you can get nerdy about exactly how much power you need and where to place thermostats and so on, or just skip the thermostat max out the heater and run it 24/7. The duel fuel stove doesn't have a power setting its just a flat value and will have enough capacity for something like a large cabin in the woods. I haven't worked out exactly how I'm going to do the solar heaters + storage tank yet but it will probably be simple.

The central cooling will be the same capacity based system, it will have its own pipes and thermostat, but because it cant store cold air you will either have to run it constant, or set a max and min temp on the thermostat, so it could cool a room down to 15c and then switch off, and then only switch back on when the temp is above 25c.

I am aware that redist heat has been updated and there is also another mod out for climate control, i haven't actually tried either of them so i don't know how similar they are to what i have talked about, but since the central heating part of this mod is optional, and not required for heating the water supply, you can choose which one you want to use. I planned on splitting the central heating part of this mod and making it standalone for A18 so you don't have to have to have hygiene. Some people want water heating as a requirement for hot baths and showers, i may be able to make it so if hygiene detects my central heating is installed then it then requires a heat source to have hot showers else it just ignores it.

That about covers it  ;D

carpediembr

I havent tried the whole mod, but I have a stupid question:

Does hot water affect the hygiene system at all? (Like a hot shower/bath)

samuk190

Quote from: dubwise56 on July 31, 2017, 01:48:28 PM
Ok I read all the comments, thanks for all of the positive feedback, bug reports and suggestions. I shall now explain, in detail, my plan.

tl:dr water capacity + better central heating split off for a18 + bug fixes

First off the research for everything will all be completed by default on classic start or higher, only tribals will have to research it, it makes more sense like that because you start with air conditioning on classic starts anyway. And the stats for bathroom impressiveness will be tweaked so its easier to get the mood buffs, i was lazy and ripped off the code for bedrooms and it requires too much stuff to get a good stat so just need to tweak it, i have also done some bug fixes which probably fixed some of the bugs people have been reporting, i was tracking and fixing them on the steam version.

Water & Sewage
You have a sewage grid and capacity and a water grid and capacity, you can place the sewage outlet on rivers, lakes or oceans and it gives you capacity, you can place a sewage drain on land which has a circle that expands over time, every x00 ticks it will push some sewage into the sewage grid within that circle, the sewage grid wont change the appearance of tiles and will be displayed with an overlay by clicking on any sewage drain or outlet, a steady cell effect function on the map component will constantly reduce the sewage value in random cells, the amount reduced will be multiplied depending on the tile so water tiles will be very fast. If you deconstruct the sewage drain or outlet the sewage will clean up over time. The total value of sewage in the grid can be used to trigger incidents like bad smells or disease.

For fresh water capacity you place an inlet on rivers, lakes or oceans, or you place a water tower on land, the water grid will show you the location of ground water where the tower can be placed, for sea ice it will let you place it anywhere just to keep it simple. The ground water isn't used up and does not need replenishing from rain or rivers, and no units of water are tracked or stored in tanks. The important thing will be to avoid overlapping water intake with sewage outflow, which will pollute the water and then trigger bad smells or disease. The water treatment system will then become useful as a way to convert sewage capacity back into water capacity, to balance that out it will need to be very large, smelly and use lots of power.

Once all of that is done the mod should be somewhere between the sims and sim city, sims scale hygiene and bladder needs with sim city scale water and sewage capacity, i prefer that kind of setup over a survival game style where you have to collect every drop of water using rain collectors and such, and its the easiest way to get it working on all biomes.

Central heating
The radiators in the current version actually have a pretty serious bug when it comes to checking room size, the bigger the room the less units of heat they use because i missed out a divide by cell count, but that's all fixed now because i have re-coded the whole thing.

Instead of being units of heat that get pushed around, its more like the sewage with a percentage capacity, the radiators then have a flat heating rate that is multiplied by the current capacity on the pipes, so 50% capacity means the heaters heat output is halved. They also take time to heat up and cool down, so when a heater is turned on the radiators quickly heat up to the current capacity, then when heaters are turned off it slowly floats down to 0. The immersion heater has a power setting of 250w to 3000w in steps, I added a thermostat which you place in any rooms that are critical or central to your base, you plumb them in and set a minimum temp, when the rooms temp falls below the minimum it will turn on any immersion heaters on that plumbing network until the target temp is reached.

This new setup makes it much easier to check whats going on at a glance, and is obviously extremely efficient because its just short spikes of power to reheat all of the radiators on demand, then they continue to produce heat on their own, and if you want you can get nerdy about exactly how much power you need and where to place thermostats and so on, or just skip the thermostat max out the heater and run it 24/7. The duel fuel stove doesn't have a power setting its just a flat value and will have enough capacity for something like a large cabin in the woods. I haven't worked out exactly how I'm going to do the solar heaters + storage tank yet but it will probably be simple.

The central cooling will be the same capacity based system, it will have its own pipes and thermostat, but because it cant store cold air you will either have to run it constant, or set a max and min temp on the thermostat, so it could cool a room down to 15c and then switch off, and then only switch back on when the temp is above 25c.

I am aware that redist heat has been updated and there is also another mod out for climate control, i haven't actually tried either of them so i don't know how similar they are to what i have talked about, but since the central heating part of this mod is optional, and not required for heating the water supply, you can choose which one you want to use. I planned on splitting the central heating part of this mod and making it standalone for A18 so you don't have to have to have hygiene. Some people want water heating as a requirement for hot baths and showers, i may be able to make it so if hygiene detects my central heating is installed then it then requires a heat source to have hot showers else it just ignores it.

That about covers it  ;D

PLEASE WHEN??????????HOLY IM ANXIOUS!! I WANT WATER SYSTEM, OH YEAH!! AND MAKE A OPTION TO DRINK WATER TOO? like I'm thirsty. Please! PLEASE !! I NEVER ASKED SOMETHING!! THANK YOU!

Mufflamingo

Yes. Add drinking water to the game. Not drinking will cause dehydration. Of course we need to have a source of water. Rivers and lakes are fresh water, we can just collect water from those. Another option would be to built a well. In the ocean biome, we need to treat saltwater to become drinkable.
Bleeeee. . . . .

Canute

Sorry, i think this is pointless.
Your pawn's allready eating a meal nearly twice a day. Doesn't a meal include drinks too.
But when water becomes a valid resources, it could be included into food recipes.

Chaos17

Quote from: Canute on August 02, 2017, 05:23:54 AM
Sorry, i think this is pointless.
Your pawn's allready eating a meal nearly twice a day. Doesn't a meal include drinks too.
But when water becomes a valid resources, it could be included into food recipes.
It depends how it's balanced, for example in summer it is pretty critical to not drink a lot for children and old people that they can die.
Also, it's not normal that your colony doesn't rely on any water source, don't even have an option to make a well to get water. We can skip things like needing water to cook some recipies (you know like bowling) because that would be pretty annoying without proper water storage items, etc.
But yeah, I'm not against a mod who will finally really use water in this game because at the moment it's just cosmetic for wat I played if I did't had the fishery mod.

Dubwise

A hydration need is outside the scope of this mod and probably outside the scale of Rimworld itself, I have already cogitated on the subject of drinking water. I know some people would like to micro manage every litre of water, but i prefer to focus on things that make the experience closer to something between the sims and sim city but grim and with guns, rather than a survival game like dayz or project zomboid. And you tend to only see water needs used in those kinds of hardcore survival games, because you have 1 player character and nothing to do other than make a little shack in the woods and survive the night, and even then they overdo it and make you get sick and die if you don't glug 2 gallons of purified water per hour, when the reality is that you are so much more likely to die to a zombie or a fall or a bug in the first 7 days that drinking water is a non issue, and as a game mechanic it doesn't actually add much other than a requirement for healing, a fuel tank for running great distances, and adding a sense of urgency, like for example, "oh god i have to find a can of peaches in this next house or i'm going to die of thirst before i find any ammo", but Rimworld doesn't have those first 2 requirements and does the urgency in other, more interesting ways, which is why i prefer it over survival games.

Now if i didn't think about what i was doing and added it anyway the first issue is that pawns only have so many minutes in a day to get jobs done, and people already complain that stopping to go to the toilet once or twice and take a shower, makes it impossible to get anything done in some situations, so adding breaks for water on top of eating standard meals would be time consuming and unnecessary, i have heard suggestions like a canteen system where they just need to top it up once in a while and then sip from it over a couple of days, but then you may as well just consider the need bar itself to be the canteen and then its just a bar that you forget about unless you live in a desert biome or on mars.

Canutes idea of adding water to the cost list of meals sounds like a better option, but then you would need to add it to every modded meal that anyone ever makes and in the right quantities, mostly in a colony at the scale of Rimworld you only need large quantities of water for things like cleaning, processing and farming and really in a real survival situation you don't actually need to drink water all the time or add it to meals, you could get just enough to survive from food sources unless you were in a very arid biome or nuclear wasteland, so water would only really be a problem if you run out of food in a desert, at which point it would only act as a way to delay death from starvation for a little bit longer. You could say well rice would have a pretty low water content so lets just start tracking the water content of every type of food and then add that to to meal during cooking and then the hydration level during consumption so that they have to drink extra water with meals, but then if strawberries have really high water content you would only ever grow strawberries so you don't have to worry about wasting time collecting water, Ok well strawberries wouldn't provide the colonist with a full spectrum of essential vitamins and minerals so lets start tracking every water and fat soluble vitamin and stop! its turning into dayz! if your game is starting to look like dayz then you are going the wrong way!

Some other uses for water that i personally think fit into Rimworlds theme and scale a bit better, and seem more realistic in the context of day to day life, could be cleaning and hygiene, tick! Making soups to ration food like nutrient paste but without the big green box, and which wouldn't require a whole extra need or modifying everyone else's recipes. Making tea and coffee or other herbal brews for mild drug effects possibly with light addictions. Washing dead mens clothes, which is frequently requested. And irrigation which is already in MarsX.

ZE

made water in a personal mod, just for cooling.  had an extreme desert playthrough and needed some cooling, turned the passive cooler into something that consumed water instead of wood (since wood was scarce) and a well to draw that water.  thought of adding drinking water to add a temperature buff, but i never really got into the coding of it since its just a personal mod

would actually like to see more of it though, things like extreme biomes could make benefit of it.  wading water in the arctic should accelerate hypothermia while staving off heatstroke in the desert, it doesn't need to be drinking water necessarily but it would be an awesome addition to the maingame

Dubwise

i already have a cold and hot wash effect which reduces heatstroke or hypothermia and gives a mood buff, there are a bunch of details like that which i leave for people to find on their own

samuk190

Quote from: dubwise56 on August 02, 2017, 09:17:41 AM
A hydration need is outside the scope of this mod and probably outside the scale of Rimworld itself, I have already cogitated on the subject of drinking water. I know some people would like to micro manage every litre of water, but i prefer to focus on things that make the experience closer to something between the sims and sim city but grim and with guns, rather than a survival game like dayz or project zomboid. And you tend to only see water needs used in those kinds of hardcore survival games, because you have 1 player character and nothing to do other than make a little shack in the woods and survive the night, and even then they overdo it and make you get sick and die if you don't glug 2 gallons of purified water per hour, when the reality is that you are so much more likely to die to a zombie or a fall or a bug in the first 7 days that drinking water is a non issue, and as a game mechanic it doesn't actually add much other than a requirement for healing, a fuel tank for running great distances, and adding a sense of urgency, like for example, "oh god i have to find a can of peaches in this next house or i'm going to die of thirst before i find any ammo", but Rimworld doesn't have those first 2 requirements and does the urgency in other, more interesting ways, which is why i prefer it over survival games.

Now if i didn't think about what i was doing and added it anyway the first issue is that pawns only have so many minutes in a day to get jobs done, and people already complain that stopping to go to the toilet once or twice and take a shower, makes it impossible to get anything done in some situations, so adding breaks for water on top of eating standard meals would be time consuming and unnecessary, i have heard suggestions like a canteen system where they just need to top it up once in a while and then sip from it over a couple of days, but then you may as well just consider the need bar itself to be the canteen and then its just a bar that you forget about unless you live in a desert biome or on mars.

Canutes idea of adding water to the cost list of meals sounds like a better option, but then you would need to add it to every modded meal that anyone ever makes and in the right quantities, mostly in a colony at the scale of Rimworld you only need large quantities of water for things like cleaning, processing and farming and really in a real survival situation you don't actually need to drink water all the time or add it to meals, you could get just enough to survive from food sources unless you were in a very arid biome or nuclear wasteland, so water would only really be a problem if you run out of food in a desert, at which point it would only act as a way to delay death from starvation for a little bit longer. You could say well rice would have a pretty low water content so lets just start tracking the water content of every type of food and then add that to to meal during cooking and then the hydration level during consumption so that they have to drink extra water with meals, but then if strawberries have really high water content you would only ever grow strawberries so you don't have to worry about wasting time collecting water, Ok well strawberries wouldn't provide the colonist with a full spectrum of essential vitamins and minerals so lets start tracking every water and fat soluble vitamin and stop! its turning into dayz! if your game is starting to look like dayz then you are going the wrong way!

Some other uses for water that i personally think fit into Rimworlds theme and scale a bit better, and seem more realistic in the context of day to day life, could be cleaning and hygiene, tick! Making soups to ration food like nutrient paste but without the big green box, and which wouldn't require a whole extra need or modifying everyone else's recipes. Making tea and coffee or other herbal brews for mild drug effects possibly with light addictions. Washing dead mens clothes, which is frequently requested. And irrigation which is already in MarsX.

Please let me explain a better idea?
What about drinking water in water machine? THERE's NO MODS IN RIMWORLD THAT ENABLES WATER SYSTEM. So please do something "little" just to satisfy our needs?Please! please!

Yeah! Pawns doesnt need to drink water alot, but they will drink in toilet, with water machine.

AND OBVIOUSLY ALL MEATS HAVE WATER INSIDE, 20-40% so just use some RANDOM METHOD and pawns will recover water need based on quantity of meal eat, and not on meat type.

Just make water as complementary and not " a real need" like if you drink alot of water you need to eat less ( because eat only gives 20-40% water) so to recovery 100% water need, need to eat more meal, so having water in the colony will make pawns eat less food, just that!

what you think?  you understand? its not too hard, and you will not have to modify every food, just put a random method like, eat something = 10-30% water recovered.


And obviously this will not damage raids, because the raiders have food inside their inventory so they will not die by thirsty, they will just eat more often.

samuk190

Quote from: dubwise56 on July 31, 2017, 01:48:28 PM
Ok I read all the comments, thanks for all of the positive feedback, bug reports and suggestions. I shall now explain, in detail, my plan.

tl:dr water capacity + better central heating split off for a18 + bug fixes

First off the research for everything will all be completed by default on classic start or higher, only tribals will have to research it, it makes more sense like that because you start with air conditioning on classic starts anyway. And the stats for bathroom impressiveness will be tweaked so its easier to get the mood buffs, i was lazy and ripped off the code for bedrooms and it requires too much stuff to get a good stat so just need to tweak it, i have also done some bug fixes which probably fixed some of the bugs people have been reporting, i was tracking and fixing them on the steam version.

Water & Sewage
You have a sewage grid and capacity and a water grid and capacity, you can place the sewage outlet on rivers, lakes or oceans and it gives you capacity, you can place a sewage drain on land which has a circle that expands over time, every x00 ticks it will push some sewage into the sewage grid within that circle, the sewage grid wont change the appearance of tiles and will be displayed with an overlay by clicking on any sewage drain or outlet, a steady cell effect function on the map component will constantly reduce the sewage value in random cells, the amount reduced will be multiplied depending on the tile so water tiles will be very fast. If you deconstruct the sewage drain or outlet the sewage will clean up over time. The total value of sewage in the grid can be used to trigger incidents like bad smells or disease.

For fresh water capacity you place an inlet on rivers, lakes or oceans, or you place a water tower on land, the water grid will show you the location of ground water where the tower can be placed, for sea ice it will let you place it anywhere just to keep it simple. The ground water isn't used up and does not need replenishing from rain or rivers, and no units of water are tracked or stored in tanks. The important thing will be to avoid overlapping water intake with sewage outflow, which will pollute the water and then trigger bad smells or disease. The water treatment system will then become useful as a way to convert sewage capacity back into water capacity, to balance that out it will need to be very large, smelly and use lots of power.

Once all of that is done the mod should be somewhere between the sims and sim city, sims scale hygiene and bladder needs with sim city scale water and sewage capacity, i prefer that kind of setup over a survival game style where you have to collect every drop of water using rain collectors and such, and its the easiest way to get it working on all biomes.

Central heating
The radiators in the current version actually have a pretty serious bug when it comes to checking room size, the bigger the room the less units of heat they use because i missed out a divide by cell count, but that's all fixed now because i have re-coded the whole thing.

Instead of being units of heat that get pushed around, its more like the sewage with a percentage capacity, the radiators then have a flat heating rate that is multiplied by the current capacity on the pipes, so 50% capacity means the heaters heat output is halved. They also take time to heat up and cool down, so when a heater is turned on the radiators quickly heat up to the current capacity, then when heaters are turned off it slowly floats down to 0. The immersion heater has a power setting of 250w to 3000w in steps, I added a thermostat which you place in any rooms that are critical or central to your base, you plumb them in and set a minimum temp, when the rooms temp falls below the minimum it will turn on any immersion heaters on that plumbing network until the target temp is reached.

This new setup makes it much easier to check whats going on at a glance, and is obviously extremely efficient because its just short spikes of power to reheat all of the radiators on demand, then they continue to produce heat on their own, and if you want you can get nerdy about exactly how much power you need and where to place thermostats and so on, or just skip the thermostat max out the heater and run it 24/7. The duel fuel stove doesn't have a power setting its just a flat value and will have enough capacity for something like a large cabin in the woods. I haven't worked out exactly how I'm going to do the solar heaters + storage tank yet but it will probably be simple.

The central cooling will be the same capacity based system, it will have its own pipes and thermostat, but because it cant store cold air you will either have to run it constant, or set a max and min temp on the thermostat, so it could cool a room down to 15c and then switch off, and then only switch back on when the temp is above 25c.

I am aware that redist heat has been updated and there is also another mod out for climate control, i haven't actually tried either of them so i don't know how similar they are to what i have talked about, but since the central heating part of this mod is optional, and not required for heating the water supply, you can choose which one you want to use. I planned on splitting the central heating part of this mod and making it standalone for A18 so you don't have to have to have hygiene. Some people want water heating as a requirement for hot baths and showers, i may be able to make it so if hygiene detects my central heating is installed then it then requires a heat source to have hot showers else it just ignores it.

That about covers it  ;D

And i loved your idea to make this mod more like sim city than survival, and I agree, can you add another pipe ONLY FOR HOT WATER? to go through showers? what you think about hot showers(give more mood to pawns) ?

samuk190

another suggestion is : real time sewage.. like if a pawn use the toilet, you can see sewage working.

Mufflamingo

Bleeeee. . . . .

Canute

QuoteAnd i loved your idea to make this mod more like sim city than survival, and I agree, can you add another pipe ONLY FOR HOT WATER? to go through showers? what you think about hot showers(give more mood to pawns) ?

And whats about Orassans ? Their comfortable temp. is below any hot water shower ! And they love special sand showers for their fur.
Crystalloids don't even like water, they use sonic showers.

Sure you can say thats the problem of the authors of these alien races.