[1.3] Dubs Bad Hygiene | Mint Menus/Minimap | Paint Shop | Rimkit | Skylights

[Dubwise]

not for my mods, can just DM me

[Sam Gray]

Hey dubwise,
Have you seen the mod "no water no life" on the steam workshop?
It adds water need to colonist in an OK way in my opinion but I don't think it alters hunger rate in any way.
Since I think Tynan has done hunger rate in way that it takes thirst need in consideration too, with water gathering basics in you mod, are you going to implement water need in a balanced way?

[Kori]

Hey dubwise,
Have you seen the mod "no water no life" on the steam workshop?
It adds water need to colonist in an OK way in my opinion but I don't think it alters hunger rate in any way.
Since I think Tynan has done hunger rate in way that it takes thirst need in consideration too, with water gathering basics in you mod, are you going to implement water need in a balanced way?

That would be VERY nice!

[Harry_Dicks]

Someone should ask the author if they mind us posting that mod on here

[Dubwise]

I already made a thirst need and tested it for a long time, its basically pointless when you are pumping thousands of litres of water for showers and toilets, because the only time it ever kicks in is when the colony is on the brink of collapse, at which point it just becomes like an accelerated starvation hediff so why not just speed up the standard starvation and save some cpu cycles, and if you make it so they need to use fountains that adds an extra job to do 4 times a day with all the extra scanners using more cpu, and people already complain that using toilets and showers eats up too much time, so people say well just add bottles they can refill and drink from over a few days, but then they basically always have water and the thirst need becomes absolutely pointless, in the end it comes down to just if water==dirty then makeSick().

So the way i cover water consumption at the moment is by presuming they are drinking from the water supply with their meals, so if any water towers are contaminated then they have a chance to get diseases, basically i look at a rimworld colony on the scale of sim city or skylines rather than zomboid or dayz where you need to purify every drop or die, because in those games you only have 1 person to manage not 40 plus your prisoners and guests. I could add some more detail like water purification machines, or filters, but thats very low priority right now and something i would likely add to mars first then port back over to hygiene.

Where a thirst mod might work great is in a survival mode scenario with zombies, and i might add it back in for my mars mod because so much else is stripped out, this is all just my research and reasoning for not doing it in my hygiene mod

[Kori]

What you are saying makes a lot of sense, a specific thirst need really seems to be pointless. 

I was thinking about alternatives that would be a middle-ground between a thirst-need and no drinking at all, and what came to my mind is this:

A dehydration state that only kicks in when the pawn is working under very hot conditions (could be linked to the heatstroke mechanic) for a longer time and which works/ builds up like a disease/ illness and needs to be countered with drinking water to simulate the additional water demand (additional to the water they regularly consume with their meals) only under certain circumstances. So the drinking water mechanic would be closer to the one of medicine than food, being very situational.

The state of dehydration could be easily "healed" when the pawn is using a drinking fountain, shower etc, so there wouldn't be any additional micromanagement while they are close to a well established base, but you would need a bottled water supply when let's say your caravans are crossing the desert or other biomes during a very hot summer, when using Set-up Camp for mining/ hunting on hot external maps, pawns working far away from your base in very hot areas etc..
I think of it like this:

-when my caravan is crossing jungle tiles, I need to add additional meds and drugs
-on snow tiles, I need to add firewood and food for my animals
-on desert tiles, I need to pack water!

This way drinking water would be much more focused on logistics rather than scarcity (which wouldn't make much sense when you are pumping thousands of litres for showers and toilets, as you already pointed out).
Just like grass for my animals: it grows everywhere on temperate maps, it has no value! Still it becomes very valuable and needs to be added to your caravan as soon as you travel to cold areas.


Opinions?

[Dubwise]

I made a prototype thirst need to see how it would play, it had a thirst bar that would always seek to the current food level, so if they were eating regular meals they would have plenty of water, and it wouldn't kill them only give them mood debuffs, then conditions would force the thirst bar to fall faster than the food bar so it needed topping up, hard work like mining or hauling or construction would speed it up, high heat, sickness, yada, if they stacked up a pawn could get thirsty very quickly. With that setup it wouldn't waste their time by making them visit fountains in the middle of doing research when they have already just eaten dinner and they are in a nice cool room, on top of visiting the toilet, and showering, and picking up fresh clothes, and doing a line of coke. It covers water from meals, gives you another reason to get good air conditioning, and not overwork pawns, works in theory right? Problem is none of the testers noticed it existed, just didn't matter. If drinking water is barely as important as having a pretty bedroom then there isn't much point to it still.

Food will always negate any hydration need, food is hydration, if you have no food but plenty of water then you die of starvation, if you have no water but plenty of food you just stuff berries in your face, there isn't any distinction between food types like in dayz where eating a bag of rice with no water kills you but eating a can of peaches is like drinking a bottle of water, most people don't even drink water irl, so pawns will always just die of starvation first.

I thought about maybe just doing it like heatstroke, basically just a carbon copy of heatstroke where its a hediff that builds up under conditions and can only be fixed by drinking water somehow, but if its just a copy of heatstroke i could just use heatstroke and save some cpu cycles, so ok you can clear heatstroke using bottled water, well my showers already do that, its the cold shower buff. Sooo what if its for heatstroke when you are crossing a desert in a caravan? well that could just be a canteen item added to my rimkit mod, wouldn't need to use your water supply, they just refill en route. I think drinking water in rimworld is a bit of a dead end, it doesn't say "a survival game by tynan sylvester" on the tin.

Id rather just stick to my current setup where everyone is drinking from the water supply with meals, and you just need to keep your supply clean or get diseases, just like sim city, since rimworld is essentially just the sims at town scale with cancer, i can add more stuff like water filtration and harder sewage control later, if people want those kinds of extra steps required to upgrade from untreated water to treated, different grades of disease risk and stuff like that, water quality gauges, who knows.

[Kori]

It's not easy to come up with ideas that you haven't already considered or even tested!
What you are saying sounds very plausible.

I'd love to see that refillable canteen item for heatstroke though! What is your concept on how to refill it? Manually near water sources, like clicking a button and the pawn will move to the closest source and refill it? And would showers etc count as water sources as well?

Extra steps for water treatment sounds interesting too!

[Canute]

Again these thirsty/water discussion. :-(

Like dubwise mention, when you eat a meal does a meal just contain food or doesn't it include it something to drink too ?
So each eating should refill the water need too.

When you are thirsty, does you realy need to sit down and drink ? Or does you do it mosttimes at standing or maybe even underway ?
Most pawn who are walking outdoors should have a canteen with them (currently nonexistent) and just take a swallo underway.

Yes on a desert/hot area you might have higher water need and on the ice you have trouble to keep the water liquid.

Do you realy think all these small micromangments are worth it ?
I don't think so.

If you just want drinks, many other mod's add these.

[Harry_Dicks]

i can add more stuff like water filtration and harder sewage control later, if people want those kinds of extra steps required to upgrade from untreated water to treated, different grades of disease risk and stuff like that, water quality gauges, who knows.

Personally, I like having more production steps for most systems. Helps to fill up the base with cool looking stuff, too (and your artwork is phenomenal.) I also play with bots and androids, so the extra labor that comes from these things isn't an issue, but rather something that I desire.

[Kori]

When you select the minified versions of wash buckets and latrines, there is an error shown in the object's info panel:

Code Select Expand

GetInspectString exception on MinifiedFurniture146433:
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at Verse.GenGrid.InBounds (IntVec3 c, Verse.Map map) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.RegionAndRoomQuery.RegionAt (IntVec3 c, Verse.Map map, RegionType allowedRegionTypes) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.RegionAndRoomQuery.RoomAt (IntVec3 c, Verse.Map map, RegionType allowedRegionTypes) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.RegionAndRoomQuery.RoomAtOrAdjacent (IntVec3 c, Verse.Map map, RegionType allowedRegionTypes) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.GridsUtility.GetRoomOrAdjacent (IntVec3 loc, Verse.Map map, RegionType allowedRegionTypes) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.GridsUtility.IsInPrisonCell (IntVec3 c, Verse.Map map) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at DubsBadHygiene.Building_AssignableFixture.get_ForPrisoners () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at DubsBadHygiene.Building_AssignableFixture.GetInspectString () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at RimWorld.MinifiedThing.GetInspectString () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at RimWorld.InspectPaneFiller.DrawInspectStringFor (ISelectable sel, Rect rect) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

[Dubwise]

I'd love to see that refillable canteen item for heatstroke though! What is your concept on how to refill it? Manually near water sources, like clicking a button and the pawn will move to the closest source and refill it? And would showers etc count as water sources as well?

I was actually using that as an example for of an idea that i can quickly dismiss because it doesn't make sense for my hygiene mod, when it comes to using more water because of high temperature, the hygiene need already covers that because high heat causes it to fall faster, then they automatically shower more often, and they take cold showers to get a mood buff and reduce the heatstroke, on the scale of a colony that can increase water and sewage usage enough to matter.

completely unrelated but... since a recent windows 10 update, whenever i have rimworld focused the cpu usage on cores 0 and 1 jumps to 100% and usage on all other cores drops to 0, when i unfocus with run in background enabled all the cores instantly balance again, if i set core affinity on rimworld to only cores 6 ad 7 it still maxes out cores 0 and 1 when in focus, no mods are enabled, it doesn't do it on other games, i noticed it while trying to diagnose and fix a multi monitor refresh rate sync issue thats making it impossible to test rimworld properly, it only happens in rimworld, i did some googling but only found generic optimization complaints, is anyone else getting that?

[Harry_Dicks]

completely unrelated but... since a recent windows 10 update, whenever i have rimworld focused the cpu usage on cores 0 and 1 jumps to 100% and usage on all other cores drops to 0, when i unfocus with run in background enabled all the cores instantly balance again, if i set core affinity on rimworld to only cores 6 ad 7 it still maxes out cores 0 and 1 when in focus, no mods are enabled, it doesn't do it on other games, i noticed it while trying to diagnose and fix a multi monitor refresh rate sync issue thats making it impossible to test rimworld properly, it only happens in rimworld, i did some googling but only found generic optimization complaints, is anyone else getting that?

This is very anecdotal, but I feel like a lot of times on my PC, if I have things set to be allowed to run in the background, they might hang on something. Say I am doing a search for a string within a large set of files, if I watch the program and it is unfocused, it might stall every now and then. Refocusing the window will resume progress. The really weird thing for me is, though, is that sometimes when a program has seemingly stopped responding, as soon as I open the task manager, it's like the program feels it's impending doom and wakes up. "No, please don't terminate me! I'm working, see, I'm not frozen!" and will resume progress again, and this is all never actually focusing on the problem program, just watching it stall in the background, and then opening task manager.

Meh, maybe it's too much confirmation bias, as I am spending way too much time on the computer. That's a bad things... right, guys?

[Imca]

Hey dub, I know your mod says "Can't removed from saves easily" but does that mean can't be removed at all? What would I have to do so if I may ask.

[Canute]

Remove any structure thats belong to that mod.
Don't forget pipe's, bucket or bedpan's.
Not sure about the hygiene dirt, maybe use the RuntimeGC mod to remove flith in homearea. And use dev tools to let to rain to remove outdoor flith.