A hate of Infestations as is

[schizmo]

Light affects the probability of an infestation spawning, but it doesn't eliminate it entirely. If you have never had an infestation in a lit area before then you have just been lucky (the storyteller also plays a part, as on lower levels infestation are less likely to occur to begin with, meaning less occasions when you need to be lucky).

Uh...No. Light does not affect the probability of an infestation. It does remove one square where it can spawn, because something's taking up the space, which affects the chance of the room getting hit (overall), but that's because of the lamp, not the light. 2 lamps reduce the chance the same as having a bed in the room.

No, this is incorrect. Light absolutely has an affect on Infestation chance, I'll show you.

http://imgur.com/a/gtJEr

I put together this handy little experiment to show how light affects infestation, by enabling "draw infestation chance" and disabling "draw lighting overlay" to show raw in game data about infestation chance (if you don't turn off the lighting overlay, lighting can make the infestation chance drawing harder to visualize)

Might be beneficial for Lightzy to see this, too, since he always says lamps eliminate infestation chance which is also untrue. It's simply more complicated than a simple will/won't happen.

edit: some of my changes to this imgur album are not saving so if you happen to read this and the last image description cuts off, it should say that the player can corral infestation chance into a single sealed unlit room, but that it does not completely eliminate infestation chance in other rooms.

[JuicyPVP]

^can we be friends? 

[Hieronymous Alloy]

You can also prevent infestations by lowering the temperature in a room to below 0 degrees fahrenheit and by filling every open tile in the room with items (rock rubble is easiest, and walkable).

[schizmo]

You can also prevent infestations by lowering the temperature in a room to below 0 degrees fahrenheit and by filling every open tile in the room with items (rock rubble is easiest, and walkable).

Filling the room with items isn't even necessary, the 0 degrees technique does well enough on it's own. I tested it using the method in my previous post and I saw no signs of any infestation once the temp dropped below 0, in fact even inching close to 0 significantly reduced it.

The trouble of course is maintaining this temperature AND surviving, it's not easy to keep an entire base this cold and it runs into the same power limitations as having sunlamps in every room.

^can we be friends? 

Heck yeah I'll be everyone's friend. I just want us to all get along even though I disagree with people all the time lol

[Hieronymous Alloy]

Yeah, 0 degrees works but it's a bad idea for a lot of reasons. (I should have said and/or). At least with rubble you can keep walkin' and there's no temp penalty.

For the most part though it's best to just not build underground unless you're deliberately building a jelly farm. In which case you don't want cold, you want heaters (up to 170 F to give the bugs all heatstroke when it's jelly time).

[SangoProductions]

Yeah, 0 degrees works but it's a bad idea for a lot of reasons. (I should have said and/or). At least with rubble you can keep walkin' and there's no temp penalty.

For the most part though it's best to just not build underground unless you're deliberately building a jelly farm. In which case you don't want cold, you want heaters (up to 170 F to give the bugs all heatstroke when it's jelly time).

But we can't grow peanuts so the farms are useless.

[schizmo]

Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches should give bigger mood buffs than the most lavish of meals

[Calahan]

Light absolutely has an affect on Infestation chance, I'll show you.

http://imgur.com/a/gtJEr

I put together this handy little experiment to show how light affects infestation...

@ schizmo - That's a really helpful visual explanation you've put together there. So helpful in fact that I've bookmarked it so that I can link to it whenever a "how to stop infestations?" type question comes up. Thanks for posting it, and for taking the time and effort to create it.

[schizmo]

Light absolutely has an affect on Infestation chance, I'll show you.

http://imgur.com/a/gtJEr

I put together this handy little experiment to show how light affects infestation...

@ schizmo - That's a really helpful visual explanation you've put together there. So helpful in fact that I've bookmarked it so that I can link to it whenever a "how to stop infestations?" type question comes up. Thanks for posting it, and for taking the time and effort to create it.

You're welcome, I'm happy to help. My one regret is the final caption gets cut off but I can't edit it because I didn't upload it with an account. Just pretend it comes to an abrupt end because I got eaten by bugs.

[b0rsuk]

Where I find fault is in players WANTING it to be just a squad combat game, and demanding changes that keep anyone else from playing it differently. People defending the current infestation mechanic frequently fall into this category. They view digging into mountains as a game experience they don't like ("too easy" or other reasons) and instead of just avoiding that game mechanic, they argue that we need infestations to keep anyone else from doing something they don't like.

But it is too easy. Digging and construction mechanics are taken straight from Dwarf Fortress, a game about dwarves, fantastical creatures with legendary affinity for mining, digging and stonecrafting. So it's natural for dwarves to live underground. It's not natural for humans to live underground - but somehow in Rimworld it's still easier to make a colony "underground" than "above ground". You think it makes sense ?

I oppose (strong) nerfing of infestation because it's currently the only event that people living under mountain care about. The last one. We need more events like infestation (not necessarily of this strength) instead of fewer.

And when it comes to Z-levels (layer above layer), I'd much rather see building UP rather DOWN, because that's what's natural for you, humans. It would also enable unique challenges like buildings losing support, enemies dropping on roof, flying vehicles - stuff Dwarf Fortress doesn't have. Embrace the differences between DF and Rimworld. Embrace the differences between fantasy and science-fiction. Don't just make a sci-fi clone of DF.

For humans, living underground should be harder than on surface. With its own advantages, but mostly a more expensive option that should be considered carefully, not used by default.

[OFWG]

But it is too easy. ... We need more events like infestation (not necessarily of this strength) instead of fewer.

You're exactly making his point with this response; it could be summarized as "you shouldn't be able to play the game that way".

RW already has mechanics that discourages full-on dwarf fortress cave bases; your pawns don't like staying underground all the time. Remember that bad moods are the real enemy in this game.

The infestation event OTOH is just an example of ham-handed "stop playing the game like you want".

[b0rsuk]

But it is too easy. ... We need more events like infestation (not necessarily of this strength) instead of fewer.

You're exactly making his point with this response; it could be summarized as "you shouldn't be able to play the game that way".

It could be summarized like that, but poorly. What I actually said was that you should be able to play the game that way, but it should be harder than in Dwarf Fortress. Humans are not dwarves. They're not burrowing animals. They're not short, stocky, muscular and used to hard work. In Rimworld, most of them are effeminate, fussy, overweight, traumatized or full of themselves. There are many backgrounds like cooks, artists, empaths, doctors, scientists, sex slaves, housemates, medieval lords, spies, clerks, social workers. Very few are miners, oafs, or other physical workers.

The mechanics ? Cabin fever is absolutely trivial. Serious cabin fewer is mitigated by a 2 minute (in-game time) visit to the outside. It's actually the opposite ! There are mood bonuses for indoor areas (spacious indoors, impressive dining room, decent bedroom), penalties for working outside, but no bonuses whatsover for having a nice park or a picnic table. To the point where the most effective outside colony is one that mimic an underground base. Build your base like a termite mound, a single building with rooms sharing walls.

Outdoors is a hostile, hostile world where enemies fall from the sky and bears randomly decide to hunt your farmers. Underground bases with their infestation problems still look cozy by comparison.

[LordMunchkin]

I honestly don't know why he would want to force people to build outside of mtns. If you want to build outside of mtns, you choose to do so. It's like choosing to play ice sheet. You're choosing a harder difficulty. Just my HO.

If he wants to make building outside of mtns easier, he's definitely going down the wrong path. Hordes of enemies, lack of (non-flammable) building materials, manhunters, and mortars make plains colonies an order of magnitude more difficult than infestations ever did for mtn bases.

My only problem with infestations is when they spawn in peoples bedrooms or hospitals. That is total, indefensible bullshit. Still it can be dealt with if you use gamey tactics which goes back to my original point; there are so many mechanics arrayed against non-mtn bases that infestations by themselves aren't going force people to play plains (forcing people is something I also disagree with strongly).

[schizmo]

I wouldn't exactly say choosing to play outside is choosing to play a harder difficulty, I would say it's choosing to play with a different set of challenges. Playing outside is easier, to me, because there are so many limitations to mountain bases, limitations that are easily overcome when playing with an open colony. It does honestly come down to play style for most people, I think. 

I still think most people play in mountains because its "easier" to defend against a lot of things, but that isn't why I choose not to use them, out of some sense of superiority. I just prefer civilization, sprawling farms, roads, and dynamic growth (and freedom to expand)

I also think mountain bases are ugly haha

[LordMunchkin]

I wouldn't exactly say choosing to play outside is choosing to play a harder difficulty, I would say it's choosing to play with a different set of challenges. Playing outside is easier, to me, because there are so many limitations to mountain bases, limitations that are easily overcome when playing with an open colony. It does honestly come down to play style for most people, I think. 

I still think most people play in mountains because its "easier" to defend against a lot of things, but that isn't why I choose not to use them, out of some sense of superiority. I just prefer civilization, sprawling farms, roads, and dynamic growth (and freedom to expand)

I also think mountain bases are ugly haha

What are those limitations? I enjoy playing on the plains too and I agree, mtn bases are fugly, but it's pretty clear to me that mtns are much easier. You need much less building materials, have more materials, and have an easier defense. Meanwhile, you avoid having to build a massive perimeter wall to protect your farmers from manhunters, having to aggressively eliminate mortars, and generally having to rely on trade to get metal and stone.