[A17] Mod List Backup (v1.5.1) (Search/Install/Colors)

[WalkingProblem]

Sorry everyone, i just .... can't do it anymore. Anything.

Omg.... sounds like something really damn serious had happened....

I feel so sorry and sad for you as a fellow modder (and a lover of your mod, which helped me so much while I was testing my mods while juggling countless number of other mods at the same time) .

I feel a little devastated of what had just transpired in this past 2-3 days... 

Take care bro, I hope you will be back and re-release the mod again when you feel alright/better.

---

I need a drink now... and its 7.51am in Singapore....

[scuba156]

I'm about to start working through a reply now. I don't know when I will get around to posting it, maybe sometime tomorrow.

Thank you for your patience.

[megrim]

The part that really bothers me is that Steam Workshop has the power to delete a mod from your system, without your explicit permission.

So essentially, when the author delete their mod through Steam Workshop, they have issued a kill command that deletes the mod on all end-users computer.

In my opinion, this is completely unethical, and a malicious action, equivocating almost to a mod author writing a virus or malware that disrupts a user's gameplay.

I'm well aware of the mod authors rights to stop further distribution of the mod, or prevent others from altering it, or even to try and charge us money (the future), but to issue a clandestine delete command with no prior warning is tantamount to a denial of service action aimed at gamers.

Instead, the author could have chosen to quietly fade to the background and not respond to other requests, or even told us, "I'm done modding. Don't bother me ever again. Here's the keys to the kingdom." Instead, he or she chooses to self-destruct all of their property and causes collateral damage and chaos throughout the RimWorld community. So I would like to know, board moderators, why do you support such behavior in your modder community? Do you realize modders are not as precious as you may believe, and that many people may be able to pick up such skills and produce their own content? Do you also realize that such behavior continues to set a bad example for other modders, and perpetrates a negative stereotype about the modding community? I await your civil response and further discourse, or your 2-week/perma-ban, depending on how you interpret my queries.

[SpaceDorf]

Without knowing the reasons behind the decission you can discuss yourselves to death about why this happened.

The fact that remains is that it really sucks if a third party has power not only over other parties content but actually over content you legally aquired.

Remember the great outcry when Diablo3 introduced a money based marketplace and the always on condition for singleplayer. How much flak Blizzard got.
I wonder when people will finally notice that Steam is just the same. DRM, Contentpolice, Performance Sucker and Privacy Invasion in one nice package.


Don't blame your fellow users over a inherently faulty system. You support the shitshow live with it or go complain to the people responsible for it.

There I said it. 

[AngleWyrm]

Remember the great outcry when Diablo3 introduced a money based marketplace... Yeah, that was hilarious. PvE environment traders & loot drops selling an endless supply of increasingly common junk, and player traders buying and selling the differences in bulk price while the prices drop.

[Neen]

The most important thing to say: thank you for making this mod and supporting it as long as you did, and thank you for instructions on how to fix saves that included it.
I'm sorry about the backlash you got for your decision, and for whatever lead to it.
I could make some... political or ethical statement on the resulting situation, but honestly, that's much less important here compared to the above sentiments. At least, I think it should be.
And as a parting note: I wouldn't have even looked here if not for the mod being removed from the workshop - so, at least, that's a positive result to me, motivation to say something.
Good luck, and hang in there.

[scuba156]

The part that really bothers me is that Steam Workshop has the power to delete a mod from your system, without your explicit permission.

So essentially, when the author delete their mod through Steam Workshop, they have issued a kill command that deletes the mod on all end-users computer.

In my opinion, this is completely unethical, and a malicious action, equivocating almost to a mod author writing a virus or malware that disrupts a user's gameplay.

I'm well aware of the mod authors rights to stop further distribution of the mod, or prevent others from altering it, or even to try and charge us money (the future), but to issue a clandestine delete command with no prior warning is tantamount to a denial of service action aimed at gamers.

Instead, the author could have chosen to quietly fade to the background and not respond to other requests, or even told us, "I'm done modding. Don't bother me ever again. Here's the keys to the kingdom." Instead, he or she chooses to self-destruct all of their property and causes collateral damage and chaos throughout the RimWorld community. So I would like to know, board moderators, why do you support such behavior in your modder community? Do you realize modders are not as precious as you may believe, and that many people may be able to pick up such skills and produce their own content? Do you also realize that such behavior continues to set a bad example for other modders, and perpetrates a negative stereotype about the modding community? I await your civil response and further discourse, or your 2-week/perma-ban, depending on how you interpret my queries.

I'll quickly reply to this.

You're first two paragraphs outlines one of the major flaws of the Steam Workshop perfectly, but it's no ones fault but Valves as that is what they choose to do once content is removed from the workshop.

It was something unintended on my part. There is no 'Delete this from everyones machine' button when you remove content, there is only a 'Delete' button on the workshop page.

It's not something Ludeon or Tynan can control. The process for removing content from the workshop just plain sucks as demonstrated by this event.

I can only ask reuploaded content be removed as per the Steam ToS regarding content must be originally created or contributed to by the uploader.

On a side note, I also don't recommend installing ANYTHING from 'some chinese' website. Just for a mod, it is extremely easy to inject an exe into the mod, and execute it when you start RimWorld, encrypting your drive and holding your data for ransom. Or even just adding code to open up a bunch of links to malicious sites in the background. Always use trusted sources.

This is also another major issue with the Steam Workshop.

Edit: Shit, I can't just put that information up and not do anything about it. I'm going to prove to Valve that there is a security issue with the Steam Workshop with a non-destructive Proof of Concept. Maybe that will seriously prompt a response from them in doing something about the Workshop. I have to do this.

The mod is currently up on GitHub. Do with it what you will. I'm only a hobbyist programmer, there is more talented people out there.

[SpaceDorf]

I have to do this.

Go get them
Seldom has being right felt so good.

And thank you for republishing.

[scuba156]

I have to do this.

Go get them
Seldom has being right felt so good.

And thank you for republishing.

Thank you.

I know exactly how I'm going to do it, I won't say exactly how as I would really hate for it to be sneakily patched in by Valve (paranoid) but I can say it will be safe and non-destructive as it is only to prove what malicious things can be done, and that I seriously believe that this could trigger some serious exposure to the issue. Serious.

[DoctorVanGogh]

I'm sorry scuba - but I think you're so far off base, you don't even see the stands any more....

As for the mod being back up (for now?)... oh well... just when the hard stuff was done

Regarding your 'perceived' issue with steam... you're conflating so many issues here... first you imply bad stuff comes from chinese websites... well maybe.... then you suddenly veer into that being an issue with steam... well, if you get something from a third party site then it's decided not from steam...

Then you suddenly notice that 'hey this is a managed assembly.... this can do stuff' well... duh... yes - and it's not an issue with steam... like in at all.
Because, as you implied... you can get this from anywhere... If anything this might be an issue with Unity or even Rimworld, because Unity can load assemblies, and Rimworld supports user written assemblies in mods...

Brilliant idea trying to get that restricted...

So... why don't you try taking a long walk instead of planning to light the world on fire while screaming "ATTENTION! DANGER! This is flammable!"

[scuba156]

I'm sorry scuba - but I think you're so far off base, you don't even see the stands any more....

As for the mod being back up (for now?)... oh well... just when the hard stuff was done

Regarding your 'perceived' issue with steam... you're conflating so many issues here... first you imply bad stuff comes from chinese websites... well maybe.... then you suddenly veer into that being an issue with steam... well, if you get something from a third party site then it's decided not from steam...

Then you suddenly notice that 'hey this is a managed assembly.... this can do stuff' well... duh... yes - and it's not an issue with steam... like in at all.
Because, as you implied... you can get this from anywhere... If anything this might be an issue with Unity or even Rimworld, because Unity can load assemblies, and Rimworld supports user written assemblies in mods...

Brilliant idea trying to get that restricted...

So... why don't you try taking a long walk instead of planning to light the world on fire while screaming "ATTENTION! DANGER! This is flammable!"

Use the code to improve your own mod at your own will. A18 will be out at some point. I won't be adding to it or fixing it's issues at all. As I said, "Do with it what you will. I'm only a hobbyist programmer, there is more talented people out there."

Sorry but I don't really care for your opinion on the security issue with the Steam Workshop. If it can be done, then I will do it. Yes assembly can do damage, duh, but Steam can easily allow for it to happen on a pretty large scale without notice. I'd rather not have the potential for damage.

Regarding "some chinese" website, that was quoted from you. My other mod that has the exact same features is still up on a fans website which is what I believe the original person who you were talking to was referring to. It was YOU that imparted that it was "some chinese website".

I didn't just imply bad stuff can come from "some chinese" websites either. Things should be installed from a trusted source. Please quote me anything anywhere that would suggest it is a good idea to install anything from an unknown source. Anywhere. Please contradict it.

I believe you need to reread what I actually wrote carefully.

Edit: Even if I do anything with an exe or sites, there is still quite a few problems with Steamworks that can be heavily abused, I just won't be saying anything more about them.

[Dellamorte]

Someone else has uploaded this to steam, you may want to ask for it to be removed. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1138512520

[Canute]

scuba156,
anything got a pro and contra thing.
None mod-site are checking the mod the author are uploading, they only remove them when some bad comments/request pop up. So these safety reason is valid for any site that share mods to the community.
And i think the author of the game need to check if a mod can excute a systemfile or not, lets hope that no script kiddies get some bad ideas now.

The workshop just more comfortable and reach more user then other ones.
And when you remove your mod, you basicly remove your agreement to distribute your mod, and basicly it is a good idea to remove it from the users database too. They avoid licence/copyright violations at this way.
Sure you notice the users arn't happy about this behavior, but they shouldn't blame the author for this.

And no i don't even got an steam account.

[RimworldOx]

Twas a great mod, hate to see it go.

Thank you though for your hard work, good modding is something most people cant do, so its great when talented people get involved in such a great game as Rimworld.

Hope your issue gets settled in your personal life, just take it one day at a time. And reach out to others for help, still some good people out there!

MUCH LOVE <3 <3 <3

[mastice]

Sorry everyone, i just .... can't do it anymore. Anything.

Don't know what you're going through and don't know what happened but I too hope things settle down and work out for you.  I thank you for all your hard work on this mod as it was one of my long time favorites!  Thank you also for providing the Github download so that we may be able to, at least, finish out a17 with this wonderful mod.

I often wondered why Ludeon hasn't included this in their core game engine yet.  Perhaps now that you have set the torch down maybe enough people will petition them to do it?  One can only hope.   

-mastice