Giving advantage to spaced out colony layouts

[Lightzy]

So I figure there should be some (complex, I guess) way for the game to assess your entire layout and do something with that. Give your pawns bonuses or whatever.

The problem is that pure efficiency is the driving force of most/all colony designs, which makes all designs a bit... well.. boring. Always one very well planned complex with the fridge being right next to the dining room and the butchery right next to that, a huge workshop area attached to the store-room etc etc etc. Done that a million times. Every colony I make looks the exact same due to efficiency of travel and defense.


But what about a "town"? or a "village"? with individual houses/huts/tents, with streets and some space between them? a workshop here, a common dining room there? A large central garden where people can chillax, etc.

Swear to god I've never, in even one screenshot, seen a layout like that. Maybe some few people tried that just for aesthetics, but it's obviously not as efficient, and so you could say the game 'punishes' you for that kinda stuff. You also need to have all your wires exposed and lots of other problems.

Seriously, I'd like to see a tribal village that looks even a bit like a tribal village.


Now I get that this is hard but if anyone has any idea how to do that, do think out loud here.
(some directions to go on maybe:

• ... fires generally are VERY VERY catching, and fire temperatures indoors are enough to melt steel beams and collapse buildings. One of the points of streets is to try to stop fires ripping through an entire town. And even then it wasn't very safe. Perhaps big complexes should be very non fire-safe and fires should be a lot more dangerous when indoors
• Constructed walls must also burn at a certain temperature. Or at least collapse. That's how it works in real life, because a wall isn't just a slab of stone generally
• Smoke inhalation as a fatal condition. Also a serious danger if you don't space out a little
• More danger of disease spread
• People having to be close together is generally a recipe for nerves, fighting and chaos
• that's all I got

Also would be great to see 'auto-generated' towns on the map have a layout that actually resembles a town.

[harpadarpa]

One way that this could be fixed might be to have Colonists need to move a certain amount every day. If colonists don't move a certain amount each day, maybe the muscles in their legs atrophe, and they move slower or something. And maybe having colonists fill their walking quota all within the same building could be another way of causing the cabin fever moodlet. Maybe treadmills could be some later game research job that would allow colonists to fulfill their walking quota without actually having to go anywhere, thus removing this negative affect for later game content.

Note that the point here wouldn't be to make game breaking disadvantages to big complexes. You still could make them live in a big complex, but you'd have to figure out ways to get them to move around on their off hours.

That's my take, anyways.

[Lightzy]

Yeah that's the idea indeed. Not to make big complex not viable. Just to make 'travel time efficiency' not the single only factor involved in dictating colony layout.

dwarf fortress gets around this by simply having the dwarfs move blazingly fast so it doesn't really matter, you can build for aesthetics or whimsy or whatever. But I don't think that'd work for rimworld.
I think the threat of hugely hot indoor fires collapsing brick walls and suffocating everyone inside might just work.

Regardless, my next colony is going to look like an actual colony, just for the fun of it.

[schizmo]

Most of my layouts are sort of like what you're describing but I'm not sure if I am understanding what you're looking for. Mine are usually a grid-like set up of 13x13 building plots with 5 tile wide roads in between each building for fire breaks (2 paved concrete tiles with 3 slate tiles in the center to act as a sidewalk and road) Those building plots are typically isolated, but if the need arises for a larger space I can join two adjacent plots together to form a 13x31 size plot for things like a dining hall and kitchen and freezer, or a spacious chicken coop, or a large farm.

I used to have entire areas dedicated to solar farms and battery banks, but due to the explosive nature of large battery banks I tend to keep all of my solar panels attached directly to buildings these days, and build them into the layout as needed. This can sometimes lead to mis-shapen buildings that break the grid pattern, so I'm still experimenting with how to best achieve this because I have gotten very comfortable with 13x13 buildings and don't want to adjust all of my room planning.

Here's an example that I threw together with God Mode to simulate roughly what I'm talking about, with some items added to relevant areas like my fridge to give it a lived-in look (despite the complete lack of items in the warehouse) I don't have any real screenshots because I tend to delete all of my save games so I'm always starting fresh. I also didn't bother trying to remove the mud but in a real game that would be something I'd work toward. And the dining hall is backwards, I like to keep the main entrance near the grow zones, but again I threw it together so the careful planning isn't really there. It's more of an example of the basic building types I tend to stick to and the overall look and feel I go for.

http://imgur.com/a/Ci36q

[Lightzy]

Shizmo that's a beautiful camp and exactly what would be very awesome to see as AI generated towns.

But nobody builds like that for real in rimworld. even if someone tells you they do, they're nobody, statistically speaking. just check out rimworld screenshots.
It's impossible to properly defend, it uses all the bricks for walkways instead of walls, and it's inefficient in terms of travel times, inefficient because of the many doors that aren't safe to 'hold open', inefficient in the use of building materials (less shared walls), exposed electrical lines, inefficient because conneting the structures would make them more spacious, increasing moods (there's no incentive at all to have an outdoor space), its a deathtrap against sieges because pawns are outside... and ... well, yeah, it's just a very suboptimal layout. I could go on I think.


That's exactly why I'm posting this suggestion for consideration and development.
So up to now the ideas are simply to make indoor fires much more devastating, collapsing structures and spreading quick, smoke inhalation, and possibly, there should be some other incentives to space stuff out and create outdoor spaces. a yard area like in prison architect, etc.

But honestly I dunno how to do it so posting here for brainstorming

[schizmo]

I disagree on a number of points raised, but part of it requires some defense and explaination on my part:

To start with I choose Slate as my road stone because it has lower defensive capabilities than Granite, which I reserve exclusively for outer walls until such time that they can be replaced with Plasteel (more than enough on a map, usually, with deep drilling) I also choose slate for roads because it's black like asphalt.

For defense the buildings themselves act as cover, allowing me to position pawns at the end of long clear corridors and shoot around corners or pop out of doors. But this is only if combat spills beyond the walls which I would have also constructed with 1 or 2 entrances at each cardinal direction (depending on how large the colony grows) these entrances are defended by a pair of turrets as well as two small rooms on both sides of the entrance with sandbag cutouts for shooters. The turrets just keep enemies from charging in, stalling until my shooters have a chance to get in position and fire at the enemy from range. I didn't include this aspect because I was focusing on a general idea but not a fully completed settlement.

Building materials aren't an issue because wood is so easily renewable, but in the later game they can be replaced with plasteel for more critical buildings.

Exposed powerlines are quite advantageous as a matter of fact, because I reduce the risk of a zrrrt event starting a fire indoors. I have, on more than one occasion, had my fire start on stone and die down relatively quickly. The downside is powerlines are flammable and can act as a fire conduit and can make your fire breaks obsolete, but fire will only crawl down the length of the powerline so it's easy to put out if it starts creeping across the road. Still, I try as often as possible for each building or set of buildings to have independant power, primarily to have smaller battery banks so zrrrt explosions are smaller.

Structures are plenty spacious as is, the dining room alone has a big space and beauty buff that has a lasting and daily affect on colonists mood. I try to make sure that area is always nice because all pawns are there every day twice a day.

Seiges are of very little concern for me, for one thing artillary is slow and inaccurate, but I usually man 4 of my own artillery from nearish to the center of town and counter seige them from the moment they arrive, putting some serious hurt on any potential seige before it can begin. If that isn't an option I assault them directly and pre emptively outside of town. Being outdoors is of very little consequence and seiges have never really been an issue, and worst case scenario I draft all non combat pawns and scatter them across town, running them away from the general direction of artillery trajectory.

There are certainly things that could be done to brute force even more efficiency but to be honest it isn't necessary, at least it hasn't been for me. Some adjacent high priority stockpiles, hauling animals, and proper management of bills and work assignments, a colony like this will run just fine.

Also this was just a sample of how I build, to give some references. My colonies are usually larger, with something like a 6x6 or 8x8 layout of building plots & roads. (I use a great deal of the space available in a stadard sized map)

[JuicyPVP]

This thread title is misleading.  Giving advantage to spaced out colony layouts should be "giving penalties to people who don't build bases I like". Why not make suggestions that actually add a benefit to towns instead of penalties to compounds. You literally did not make a single suggestion to make towns more viable. Only compounds less. That's shoehorning. A good example of this in game is the Infestation as is. It doesn't add anything to the game. It doesn't reward any playstyle- only hinders one.

Rimworld does not need any more of this.

I'm all for viable towns. IF the towns are made viable by giving them bonuses, not by giving compounds penalties.

[Lightzy]

This thread title is misleading.  Giving advantage to spaced out colony layouts should be "giving penalties to people who don't build bases I like". Why not make suggestions that actually add a benefit to towns instead of penalties to compounds. You literally did not make a single suggestion to make towns more viable. Only compounds less. That's shoehorning. A good example of this in game is the Infestation as is. It doesn't add anything to the game. It doesn't reward any playstyle- only hinders one.

Rimworld does not need any more of this.

I'm all for viable towns. IF the towns are made viable by giving them bonuses, not by giving compounds penalties.

Ok, here's to help you not be so misled: the advantage of a more spaced out town is that it's not ridiculously vulnerable to fires that will spread rapidly in, and collapse large single compounds.
The disadvantage is that it's less efficient in almost everything else.

Feel free to suggest more suggestions instead of opinions. this thread is for suggestions, not opinions.

[JuicyPVP]

Fires don't spread from stone brick wall to stone brick wall with stome tile on the floor -_- lol. Most people have stone walls in there complexes rendering get your fire point completely mute. (And that's why wood walls get the penalty.)

I don't have any suggestion to make towns more viable because I don't care. I run several buildings. Maybe a "complex" or "campus" not a single building. But each dude ain't got his own house.

All day long you read on this forum Where people want other people's style of play nerfed... why? Why not ask for your style of play to receive a bonus? Not everyone wants a town. I find them unrealistic. I want all my stuff I have as I just crashed on to this shit rim world all in one place and easily defendable. That's just how I would do it irl. If you would do it differently, then come up with a way to make your playstyle more beneficial.

Most Sim players are going to build the most efficient base no matter what you do to try and stop them. It's part of the sim genre.

Going to give a bonus to towns by making it so that pawns benefit if their room door opens to the outside? They will just make a square/rectangle of rooms with exterior doors.

[Lightzy]

Yup. Everyone is going to build the most efficient UNDER THE RULES OF THE GAME.
If the rules of the game included more realistic fire mechanics (IE that buildings can collapse, smoke damage etc, and every material having its own burn temp), then automatically you'd be more inclined to space things out a bit.

So basically you're saying you're against making more realistic fire simulation.



My god why are everyone here so freaking dense and without ideas. got an idea? add it. Don't got one? go away. I wish I could close my threads to allow only posts from people who ADD IDEAS

[JuicyPVP]

If the floor is stone... and the walls are stone... and the furniture is stone...  then what exactly is being lit on fire?  The stone?

[JuicyPVP]

I added an idea: don't nerf plays types to shoehorn other playtypes.... thats a pretty solid idea actually.

[Lightzy]

https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-stone-structure-get-destroyed-by-fire

[Lightzy]

Hey can any mod delete this thread so I can repost it without the troll?
I promise to add a section at the end or at the beginning that says "If you cannot develop an idea, don't post here"

[JuicyPVP]

In rim world the roof is sheet steel.. there is literally no fuel to be burnt in most people's structures.

You are suggesting to nerf the common play style to suit your personal liking. That's fine. But you have to expect resistance from the 80% of players who run the play style you want nerfed... I'm not trolling you. Lol.