Listening to complaints.

[PotatoeTater]

I think some "balance" should be in place for mountain bases, but Id like it in the form of a boost to other types of bases. Is that possible? IDK. I posted in another thread maybe we can do a mood buff (+) to pawns whose room exits into "unroofed" or "Out doors". And then maybe make infestation only spawn in dark. Because right now they can spawn in lit up rooms (like a hospital. omg lol) and that just doesn't seem balanced for a hive to pop up in the middle of a fully operational/used every day base.

The idea behind hives is they drop out of the ceiling, so imagine if there where z levels, the area above your colony is a hive and they come out of the overhead mountain so they can drop anywhere. Also colonists already get a mood debuff if left indoors for too long. Cabin fever can be a problem with a total mountain stronghold. The main reason infestations are a thing is because killboxes make the game too easy so to speak, you should have to make a plan and have strategy to defend yourself, and overhead mountains protect you from mortars, so it's just a threat to replace that. Besides, the bugs are pretty easy to beat, and while you may lose some supplies or maybe even a person, the game is about losses and hardships. It's just another bump in the road, and with a whole world to explore, you will always get a new colonists. Plus, if the game is too hard, you can always drop difficulties.

[Grishnerf]

People will alyways complain about anything.
it never stops.
but crying is also a good sign tbh.
they all cry, because deep within they care about the game and want to make it better
(in their view)

[JuicyPVP]

I think some "balance" should be in place for mountain bases, but Id like it in the form of a boost to other types of bases. Is that possible? IDK. I posted in another thread maybe we can do a mood buff (+) to pawns whose room exits into "unroofed" or "Out doors". And then maybe make infestation only spawn in dark. Because right now they can spawn in lit up rooms (like a hospital. omg lol) and that just doesn't seem balanced for a hive to pop up in the middle of a fully operational/used every day base.

The idea behind hives is they drop out of the ceiling, so imagine if there where z levels, the area above your colony is a hive and they come out of the overhead mountain so they can drop anywhere.

Now that that was explained at least it makes sense to me.

[Lubricus]

I am not worried, even if I have seen other games go downhill. Every update of RW have increased the depth of the game. The only very minor thing that have been dumbed down is the name changes Xergium->Healroot and Megatherium -> Megaslooth. That sounds dumb when you have played the earlier versions but it's not a big deal.

And as earlier post's have noticed, you can change the difficult settings and use mods if you think the game is to difficult or easy.

[PotatoeTater]

To be fair, nothing he has said in the initial post is disrespectful or unnecessary. Since the steam release more and more people have been complaining about how hard the game is. It comes with the standard steam audience and is something very true. If you think the game is too hard and everything is unfair, play on an easier difficulty, or go to a game that is easy. Milon has stated it perfectly that many of us have been here for years and we enjoy the game how it is, and seeing people complaining about the difficulty does suck, you're new and starting out by trying to call someone disrespectful for voicing his opinion isn't what we uses the forums for. If you disagree with how the game is make a suggestion in the suggestion area, learn to code and make a mod, or as stated before find a different difficulty or game all together.

See now this is where the $ vs OG loyalty thing will come into play.

I am not offended by people who want the game to be hard (or keep it hard). After re-reading it, maybe OP wasn't condescending (there have been some arguments elsewhere about the pre-steam rimworld players vs the steam players, and generally the pre steamers are rude to anyone who bought on steam. again elsewhere not here) and I am just used to seeing people rip steam players for this specific game.

The modding community will likely always provide an out. ALSO scenario editor does allow you to turn stuff off. Like Zzzrrt.. and Infestations, which I currently turned off because I don't like them/cant do anything about them. Now this game IS alpha. I think once it gets closer to a finished product, there will be a better learning system which will explain the scenario editor. I mean once you learn how to use it (or just find it lol ) rimworld becomes whatever you want it to be. Add in mods, and the game is literally what you make it.

It isn't necessarily rude, although yes some people take everything personal, but coming from experience, steam players usually are either A. people in their early careers/college years, or B. Around 12 so to speak. A lot of the younger players complain when things get hard, they want games to be linear and easy to play without punishment for misplays. A lot of the recent games I've seen and tried on steam which targets the teen audience tends to be too easy and become unfun for me and it's the same with the A group, while the B group enjoys them and that is what they want. One of the biggest games you can take for example that has massive amounts of complaints is rust, a lot of the younger players complain and whine about how hard it is, (Some older ones do too ); however, the older crowd tends to not complain and actually plays the game and figures out strategies for it. Rust becomes easy with friends and organized bases. Perspective changes a lot of views and like I've said before instead of complaining, become involved, make suggestions, (I don't mean post how stupid some feature is and should be changed, but make an alternative suggestions like say you want infestations to be easier, make them more flammable or add a flame thrower that makes them scatter.) Then, if you really want to speed up change, make a mod, some of the features we see now started off as mod concepts, you just have to work for it and learn and grow as a player.

[PotatoeTater]

I am not worried, even if I have seen other games go downhill. Every update of RW have increased the depth of the game. The only very minor thing that have been dumbed down is the name changes Xergium->Healroot and Megatherium -> Megaslooth. That sounds dumb when you have played the earlier versions but it's not a big deal.

And as earlier post's have noticed, you can change the difficult settings and use mods if you think the game is to difficult or easy.

I miss the old names 

[LordMunchkin]

IMHO, this thread and many of its posters are insulting and rude. When you tell people to stop complaining, what you're really doing is telling people to shut up. This runs counter to the purpose of a forum which is calm and civil discourse which includes constructive criticism. Telling people to either shut up or stop playing is the antithesis of this. That's not even getting into the misguided sense of superiority some posters  here have for playing the game before the steam release. Indeed, sadly what I've noticed is that this forum has become markedly less friendly since the steam release which I attribute to older players backlash against the newbies. Shame. 

As an older player and someone who "complains," I will tell you this; none of your in game achievements matter at all. This is a single-player game, not a university, job, or competition. At the end of the day, your daily fiber intake matters more than this game. So you shouldn't be angry when the now, new majority of players voice their opinions and ask for change. And really, this is a choice for Tynan. His game is becoming very popular and could become even more popular. Does he tailor the game for older players like myself or does he make it somewhat easier for newer players? Does he try to do both? It's a difficult decision for which I don't envy him.

Finally, this game is still in alpha (I'm honestly starting wonder if it will ever be out of alpha). As such, it is rough around edges at the very least. Thus it NEEDS lots of criticism from everyone if its going to be a better game. I feel many OG players here are somewhat blind to these flaws because they make the age old mistake of thinking tedium=difficulty (also pride, always the pride). 

It isn't necessarily rude, although yes some people take everything personal, but coming from experience, steam players usually are either A. people in their early careers/college years, or B. Around 12 so to speak. A lot of the younger players complain when things get hard, they want games to be linear and easy to play without punishment for misplays. A lot of the recent games I've seen and tried on steam which targets the teen audience tends to be too easy and become unfun for me and it's the same with the A group, while the B group enjoys them and that is what they want.

Lol, I recently introduced my youngest brother to this game a couple months ago and he mastered its hardest difficulty in less than a week (being a teenager gives him lots of freetime time). This just goes back to that misguided sense of superiority I mentioned earlier.

[Orravan]

(...] Since the steam release more and more people have been complaining about how hard the game is. It comes with the standard steam audience and is something very true.

As much as I hate it as a customer-rights-infringing platform, Steam and its community doesn't have anything to do with it per se.
It's just what happens when a playerbase reaches a critical mass and the community widens: the multiplicity of opinions is growing exponentially.

If you think the game is too hard and everything is unfair

I haven't made such a claim. I actually stated the exact opposite, that I do like difficulty.

(...) you're new and starting out by trying to call someone disrespectful (...)

I'm not sure to understand why the novelty of my account should have anything to do with someone being disrespectful.
Either you are disrespectful, or you're not. Why should my identity matter in this?

trying to call someone disrespectful for voicing his opinion

He wasn't merely "voicing his opinion". He was openly denigrating people unsatisfied with the current mechanics, and branding their opinion as worthless.

If you disagree with how the game is (...)

I don't.


You either didn't read my posts, or didn't give a crap about what I meant in them.
But you felt compelled to reply.


See, that kind of bullshit, with people blindly reacting without even taking the time to read and understand a point, is why I ended up disregarding participating in forums over the years.
It looks like I definitely should've remained accountless.

[PotatoeTater]

IMHO, this thread and many of its posters are insulting and rude. When you tell people to stop complaining, what you're really doing is telling people to shut up. This runs counter to the purpose of a forum which is calm and civil discourse which includes constructive criticism. Telling people to either shut up or stop playing is the antithesis of this. That's not even getting into the misguided sense of superiority some posters  here have for playing the game before the steam release. Indeed, sadly what I've noticed is that this forum has become markedly less friendly since the steam release which I attribute to older players backlash against the newbies. Shame. 

As an older player and someone who "complains," I will tell you this; none of your in game achievements matter at all. This is a single-player game, not a university, job, or competition. At the end of the day, your daily fiber intake matters more than this game. So you shouldn't be angry when the now, new majority of players voice their opinions and ask for change. And really, this is a choice for Tynan. His game is becoming very popular and could become even more popular. Does he tailor the game for older players like myself or does he make it somewhat easier for newer players? Does he try to do both? It's a difficult decision for which I don't envy him.

Finally, this game is still in alpha (I'm honestly starting wonder if it will ever be out of alpha). As such, it is rough around edges at the very least. Thus it NEEDS lots of criticism from everyone if its going to be a better game. I feel many OG players here are somewhat blind to these flaws because they make the age old mistake of thinking tedium=difficulty (also pride, always the pride). 

It isn't necessarily rude, although yes some people take everything personal, but coming from experience, steam players usually are either A. people in their early careers/college years, or B. Around 12 so to speak. A lot of the younger players complain when things get hard, they want games to be linear and easy to play without punishment for misplays. A lot of the recent games I've seen and tried on steam which targets the teen audience tends to be too easy and become unfun for me and it's the same with the A group, while the B group enjoys them and that is what they want.

Lol, I recently introduced my youngest brother to this game a couple months ago and he mastered its hardest difficulty in less than a week (being a teenager gives him lots of freetime time). This just goes back to that misguided sense of superiority I mentioned earlier.

As stated in the whole quote over all, it's not always how it is, generally yes, always, no. It depends on the player as I stated in my entire quote. It comes down to strategy and planning, which sounds like your brother has mastered. So again it depends on the player and was what I stated in the over all article.

[PotatoeTater]

(...] Since the steam release more and more people have been complaining about how hard the game is. It comes with the standard steam audience and is something very true.

As much as I hate it as a customer-rights-infringing platform, Steam and its community doesn't have anything to do with it per se.
It's just what happens when a playerbase reaches a critical mass and the community widens: the multiplicity of opinions is growing exponentially.

If you think the game is too hard and everything is unfair

I haven't made such a claim. I actually stated the exact opposite, that I do like difficulty.

(...) you're new and starting out by trying to call someone disrespectful (...)

I'm not sure to understand why the novelty of my account should have anything to do with someone being disrespectful.
Either you are disrespectful, or you're not. Why should my identity matter in this?

trying to call someone disrespectful for voicing his opinion

He wasn't merely "voicing his opinion". He was openly denigrating people unsatisfied with the current mechanics, and branding their opinion as worthless.

If you disagree with how the game is (...)

I don't.


You either didn't read my posts, or didn't give a crap about what I meant in them.
But you felt compelled to reply.


See, that kind of bullshit, with people blindly reacting without even taking the time to read and understand a point, is why I ended up disregarding participating in forums over the years.
It looks like I definitely should've remained accountless.

Taking little quotes out of the entire article makes the context pointless, if you read the entire article you understand what I am trying to say.

[LordMunchkin]

As stated in the whole quote over all, it's not always how it is, generally yes, always, no. It depends on the player as I stated in my entire quote.

You don't get to make a generalization in one sentence and just walk it back in the next. That's not how etiquette works.

The fact of the matter is that people here have made a thread complaining about people complaining! It deserves to be laughed at!

[PotatoeTater]

As stated in the whole quote over all, it's not always how it is, generally yes, always, no. It depends on the player as I stated in my entire quote.

You don't get to make a generalization in one sentence and just walk it back in the other. That's not etiquette works.

The fact of the matter is that people here have made a thread complaining about people complaining! It deserves to be laughed at!

Not necessarily walking it back, but acknowledging that there is always those that are outside of a generalization. Not everyone follows the grain. The point I placed was instead of complaining about how you hate a game mechanic or accusing someone of being disrespectful for posting a complaint, you should instead make suggestions for changing parts you disagree with or making a mod that fixes your complaint. A part of the forum is for asking for help, instead of posting, "Sieges are op and so dumb" post, "I'm finding myself losing to sieges, what can I do to survive them better".

So in short, instead of complaining and basically trying to cause a shit storm by stirring up players, make a positive change. Post in suggestions with how you think things should be fixed, make a mod or ask for help with a mod, or ask for better planning and strategies.

[LordMunchkin]

Not necessarily walking it back, but acknowledging that there is always those that are outside of a generalization. Not everyone follows the grain. The point I placed was instead of complaining about how you hate a game mechanic or accusing someone of being disrespectful for posting a complaint, you should instead make suggestions for changing parts you disagree with or making a mod that fixes your complaint. A part of the forum is for asking for help, instead of posting, "Sieges are op and so dumb" post, "I'm finding myself losing to sieges, what can I do to survive them better".

So in short, instead of complaining and basically trying to cause a shit storm by stirring up players, make a positive change. Post in suggestions with how you think things should be fixed, make a mod or ask for help with a mod, or ask for better planning and strategies.

What constitutes a valid criticism in your opinion? How come some of the more crude complaints here have gotten a free pass from you? See:

People will alyways complain about anything.
it never stops.
but crying is also a good sign tbh.
they all cry, because deep within they care about the game and want to make it better
(in their view)

Not everyone here has an equal command of language and argument. However, as long as they follow the rules, they should be able to post their problems even if they don't know how to fix them.

Finally, shouldn't you practice what you preach? If you want to set an example for newer players, instead of complaining about them complaining you should ask to hear their suggestions and point them in the direction they need to make changes themselves. Just my honest opinion...

[milon]

Thread locked.  It was getting too heated & off topic.  I'm also not convinced this belonged in General Discussion in the first place.  Feel free to create a new thread, but try to keep on the given topic.  A thread discussing (or complaining about) complaining should go in Off Topic, and a thread about RimWorld's mechanics should go in General Discussion.