Raiding -thoughts ?

[Ace_livion]

So raiding Pirate bases is a thing now
but is it an attractive thing to put your pawns in danger for the promise of loot?

I mean, lets say a 4 colonist raiding scenario?
can those 4 pawns bring back the worth of the raid compared to simply crafting at home. when you think of the idea of losing your colonists?

right now what comes to mind for me (personal opinion) is its attractive if your caravan desperately needs food.
other then that, its something you do if you are missing some action.

but as i think about it, raiding losses could easy be a more potent part of the game if the Risk/Reward becomes more of a irresistible temptation.
what I'm thinking is that right now having your colonist stay at home and from time to time do a caravan, is the way to do things.
and it seams like there is a natural block for raiding, since the game like to limit how many colonist you have.(making risking their lives for something you could craft/buy undesirable) but this feature would be less needed if it was more attractive to risk the life's of your colonists in attempts to grasp the sweet promise of loot.

I was thinking thing could go in the way of unique items only gain-able from raiding.
events that pushes player into taking action against close living hostile bases.
but this is not really meant as a suggestion post. more in the where would we like this to go kinda post

so what are your opinions on raiding? worth it? fun? how big a part of RimWorld would you like this to be?
a minor thing you can chose to do? or more of a key feature?

[Limdood]

big issue with raiding is that the pirates will attack your pawns all at once when they decide to.

That means you need to be able to survive a stand up firefight (you can still snipe some down early and/or lead them into crossfire, but you'll still have to do something of a firefight often enough) OR sneak some pawns in, grab the best stuff, and run out in time.

For the first one, snipers are obviously a very strong choice, or spare rocket launchers.  You only need to kill half to make them give up and flee, leaving all the loot for you.

For the second one, personal shields and strong melee weapons are great for getting thru walls, getting the loot, and running out under gunfire (if they notice).

Further, pirate bases often have lots of food, some random meds, and some random drugs.  You may get very little return on your raid, or you might snag 40 luciferium.  Other than the weapons the pirates themselves have, you won't really find anything else...no bionics, no neurotrainers, no gold/jade/plasteel...in short, other than drugs, none of the "big ticket" items that would make raiding bases particularly attractive.

What raiding CAN give, however, is travel or an escape.  A couple pawns CAN fairly consistently raid and run.  This means that you can pull off a "raid to live" mobile game (though no joy gain during travel is a problem without iron willed sanguine pawns...).  It also means a dying colony COULD have the few surviving pawns quickly grab a bit of food and run, relying on a quick raid to get enough food, and maybe medicine or drugs to buy/survive the early days of another colony (for those that like the "long term" ongoing story and might suffer a colony ending event)

[Ukas]

What I would like to see is that there were more variety in pirate bases. Some could be small and some could be huge, and have many enemy pawns inside. Bigger ones could have turrets too. Also, why not traps? As player gets to use traps it would be only fair if some pirate bases could have them as well. The higher the risk, the higher the reward, so bigger bases would have more loot inside them.

Currently, lootwise, raiding is not that tempting, there seems to be some drugs, and some food - not probably as much food as the raiding party consumes while travelling in and out, but I like it as it's fun to raid a place sometimes.

As a feature, I think it would be cool if you could go and rescue a captured colonist from a pirate base or a tribal colony.

[PotatoeTater]

I use a very special method for raiding. Usually I'll begin my raiding around year 5 give or take. I tend to try and get a few pawns that are specifically shooters, (IE, Usually three with no real skills), as well as, one good social person. (I use my raid group as my trade caravan as well.) Then I take my 4 pawns, (The one with a good social is the leader so to speak), and I gather up about 100 meals and 5 pack muffalos. I'll bring with me some supplies to start a base camp, mainly a few pieces of furniture and batteries, then I build a small freezer house with a table and a solar panel to connect to the batteries that will run the turrets we place down incase the pirates push. I have my guys armed with 2 charge rifles and 2 sniper rifles with a rocket launcher in reserve.  Once the base is taken out I then deconstruct everything and move it all to the freezer base. Then I slowly scale down until all that is left is the actual freezer and some walls to hold up the ceiling over all the gathered supplies. we then pack up everything and head out. Along the way we will stop at a friendly settlement or two to sell off most of the stuff we don't want then home.

[TheMeInTeam]

Right now, raids re-generate resources when you re-enter the map.  In some cases, it is relatively straightforward to sneak into their supplies.

Sometimes those supplies are just basic medicine and some meals.  Sometimes you can snag a non-trivial amount of luciferium or other valuable pickups reliably.  In the latter case, it's obviously worth it.

Also due to auto-regen nature a good pawn can repeatedly appear on the pirate map and kill animals near the edge of the map (repeat entry abuse on ice sheet for example).  If you have frags and a way to sneak enter it is even possible to destroy beds and get a renewable source of wood.  You can also "raid" some maps and blitz them to mine steel but it's inefficient and heavy.

A lot of these can be downright broken-tier if you're immediately bordering a pirate town, which then becomes a food + luci generator on the order of something no grower could possibly match.

[Techgenius]

Be great if we could... I mean, I have yet to try this, take slaves, take prisioners, take them back in my evil laboratory, remove all their bodyparts and replace them with EPOE wooden/steel parts, sell their stolen bodyparts and sell them into slavery having only peglegs, steel arms. Too cruel? or too profitable?

[Techgenius]

I saw a discussion somewhere about.. Moving bases, like nomads living off the land, transporting slaves and wargear for living only by raiding and settling only temporalily for survival reasons, but for some reason it does not work

[Ace_livion]

A lot of these can be downright broken-tier if you're immediately bordering a pirate town, which then becomes a food + luci generator on the order of something no grower could possibly match.

that's really interesting. I was thinking myself that placing your base beside one of the big traders was the way to go. but a regenerating pirate base might be worth more if you have some skilled colonists.

is Lucium really that great? i mean, surely pirate bases could easy be the only reliable source early game.
I can see the fun of making a all on Lucium raiding run.

or a no base colony, only moving and rely on raiding food/trading.
kinda a challenge mode where you have until the Friendly AI tells you the location of the ship to get as much stuff ready for your journey.

[Wanderer_joins]

You can also "raid" some maps and blitz them to mine steel but it's inefficient and heavy.

Why bother with steel on a standard map? Open ancient dangers, you get hyperwave cloths, items, luci... it's efficient, light and there are "many" tiles on the world map...

So even if the auto-regen of outposts is fixed, ancient dangers would still be an easy way to get silver.

Concerning raiding of outposts, it can be exploited, yes, so it's up to you to decide how to deal with it and to set your own rules.

[Techgenius]

What do you mean? enemy faction bases regenerate? rebuild after a time? OH IM GOING TO HAVE FUN WITH THIS

[TheMeInTeam]

What do you mean? enemy faction bases regenerate? rebuild after a time? OH IM GOING TO HAVE FUN WITH THIS

As long as you don't make them flee, they regenerate *instantly*.

is Lucium really that great? i mean, surely pirate bases could easy be the only reliable source early game.

It's the most polarizing drug in the game.  A lot of people shy from using it, because once a pawn takes it, they have to keep taking it or they die.

However, it also provides bonuses on par with bionics in terms of move speed/work performance, makes disease a joke, and can even heal old scars/long term conditions if the body part isn't destroyed.

So it's a true devil's bargain indeed.  The price of maintaining someone on it isn't trivial, but neither are the benefits.  Anything that gives you a near-infinite supply is a tremendous advantage.

[Limdood]

I make heavy use of Luciferium in my games.  As soon as i feel like i can possibly sustain it, i have my best doctor take it.  I follow that up with my best crafter and/or constructor when i can sustain multiples.

12 Luciferium covers a single pawn for a YEAR (i haven't tried setting interval to 6 days, i'm considering trying it) which costs roughly 1800 silver to BUY. 

I do the same thing with penoxycyline on my doctor.  What this means is that in short order in most colonies, i'll have a pawn who has heightened consciousness, eats less, recovers from flu, infection, and possibly parasites almost twice as fast, and is completely immune to the other illnesses.  Never worry about my best doctor being incapacitated or risk death by disease again.

[Ace_livion]

so Lucium might really be the hidden gem of the prate base.
but since the auto regain only comes if they don't flee, it sound like a semi exploit.

how long is the normal regain time for a pirate base? in the scenario where you wish to use them for a Lucium source.
without semi exploding them.

[TheMeInTeam]

You can also "raid" some maps and blitz them to mine steel but it's inefficient and heavy.

Why bother with steel on a standard map? Open ancient dangers, you get hyperwave cloths, items, luci... it's efficient, light and there are "many" tiles on the world map...

So even if the auto-regen of outposts is fixed, ancient dangers would still be an easy way to get silver.

Concerning raiding of outposts, it can be exploited, yes, so it's up to you to decide how to deal with it and to set your own rules.

I have raided a chunk of different environments and have yet to encounter an ancient danger.  Do those actually turn up on raids?  If so they're an obvious target for sure.

[Techgenius]

Is it sustainable to live off the land as nomads if using proper mods such as set up camps, tent mod and a few other additions? you wanna go Genghis Khan/Atilla on those pirates?