Mods making the game "to easy"?

[Thyme]

If your game feels too easy, ramp up the difficulty. Tynan is not responsible for your mods, it's your decision how you modify your game. I'm very restrictive and require them to be vanilla friendly (e.g. QualityBuilder). Using a fishing mod on Sea Ice is something I'd never do, because it takes the challenge away, which is what Sea Ice is about. Same goes for Prepare carefully. The idea of RimWorld is that it's a story about random people. I can't make the perfect pawn, let him crashland and pretend everything is fine. Some rerolls untill I get a decent pawn and that's it*. A guy once wrote that he has his starting pawns saved and just loads them. This is horrible, he's playing the same game ever and ever again! Well, my 2 Cents. Use mods at your own discretion.

PS: a 10x10 area already fits 1000 Meals.

*played my first three games without rerolling at all. That part is so tedious.

[Perq]

I've got a few hundred hours in RimWorld and I must say that I absolutely love the game.  I also love the mods that our awesome community has created for us.  I just wrapped up a nice game on an ice sheet with the average temperature hovering around -20°F.

The thing I'm noticing is some of the mods like "Prepare Carefully" "More Vanilla Turrets" and "Stacks XXL" seem to reduce the difficulty curve of the game.  For instance "Prepare Carefully" gives me the option to customize my pawns, thus removing pyromaniac traits and preexisting medical conditions.  "More Vanilla Turrets" give me the option to build gun emplacements to mow down enemy raiders regardless of available weaponry. "Stacks XXL" allow me to cram 1000+ meals in a 10x10 cooler without having to worry about more space and more air conditioners.

Do you guys think these mods make the game to easy?  Am I just playing on a low level and should up the challenge? I'm currently on Randy Random with Intense difficulty.  I ask because I'm starting to find the game to be a bit boring.

Well, why pick those then?

I'm using quite a lot of mods, but I find most of them balanced or QoL. I'm using additional arsenal from something-something-Vanilla Ice mod, which fills the gap between power armor and bullet-proof vests with protective armors. They still take a lot of time to make, they cost a lot of components and make your pawns very slow (non-powered). Balanced additional content which doesn't make game too easy = cool.

There are also plenty of mods which fix many of QoL problems that the game currently has, but Tynan will probably get rid of them at some point, so these are mostly temporary. These change little in balance of the game, and rather make some situations less frustrating.

All mods that add equipment that is overpowered for its cost, requires little resources to make, or no research is a no go for me.
Every mod that increases stack size is also a no-go, since stacks are small for a reason.

[Stormfox]

@OP and everyone else that starts debates similar to this one on any game forum, but especially pure single player games:

How about you let everyone decide for himself how hard, easy, simulation-heavy, rpg-heavy, pseudorealistic, abstract, slow, fast, goal-oriented, endless, hardcore or casual he/she wants to play.

Games are supposed to be fun for the people playing them. If you think mods make the game too easy for you, do not install them. Done.

[Serenity]

Depends on how you use the mods. For example with Stacks XXL I only set my stacks to x2 to x4 depending on the item type. I don't like super huge stacks, but a little bigger is nice for certain things.

Prepare Carefully too can be used in a way to have decent starting colonists, but just remove some annoying traits. You can show some restraint by not making super people and still give them some slightly negative traits.

[b0rsuk]

A big thing for me is storage: vanilla storage suuuuuccccckkkkkkkssssssss. Yeah, sure, just go throw all that stuff (food, ingredients, materials, etc) right on the floor, guys, don't organize it at all, just leave it right there. /s

I mean, humans have known about shelving, boxes and assorted containers since the early Stone Age. There is no reason whatsoever that storage has to be so hilariously inefficient, to the point where storage is going to be taking up a substantial portion of your mid/late-game colonies. None.

While vanilla is deficient in storage department, there is a very good reason. Visual clarity. You can determine at a glance which resources are where. If you allow for different types on the same tile, you can no longer see what is where. It's like DoomRL vs Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. In DoomRL it's like Rimworld - one item per tile, even when a monster drops several items. In DCSS you can have very many items, and looting the battlefield afterwards is pretty awful. You have to navigate through multiple menus.

Increasing stack capacity comes with its own problems. When I add 10 unfertilized eggs to 5 fertilized ones, the stack becomes unfertilized. When I add a 5% progress egg to two eggs 50% progress, it's averaged to 35% and chicks will take longer to hatch. And if you allow stacking apparel or weapons how do you spot a shitty, degraded weapon among good quality ones ?

Another thing is combat. There is very little rationale behind an assailant taking a bullet to the torso, then running around for several days in-game, all while shanking people and having multiple mental breakdowns. Hence, Combat Realism.

Colonists would die left and right when shot. It would be very hard to rescue anyone. And Combat Realism breaks melee combat. The only reason Combat Realism is playable is because AI is terrible at using cover. Combat realism makes the game easier because you can outrange enemies even easier and utterly annihilate them before they come near. Ammunition management is just more micromanagement with little gain.

Yet another thing is agriculture and cooking. In vanilla RW, we are limited to, what, 8 crops, and 3 or so recipes? Using Vegetable Garden, I can now grow 20+ crops, and make food that actually seems like it would be pretty tasty. Stew made from bear meat, beans, corn, potatoes, carrot and mushroom, compared to a "lavish meal"?

Some plant types in Rimworld are niche enough as it is. Potato = gravel. Corn = rich soil. Rice = hydroponics. But what about strawberries ?  For solar flares if you only use nutrient paste dispenser ?

I very much doubt the plants in Rimworld become more distinct when there's 20+ of them total. And that's some of us care about. For the same reason, I would like to see stone types, leather types, wool types, meat types diversified or merged. As far as mechanics are concerned there are only 3 meat types: animal, insect, human. But I have to juggle so very many meat types. A meal can be made of snowhare meat and polarbear meat, but you can't make a tuque out of mufallo wool and alpaca wool. The rest is useless fluff.

For example, in vanilla Rimworld, you grow cloth, then throw it on a sewing table to make into clothing. In VG, you grow cloth fibers (cotton, linen, hemp, wool), then weave it into cloth on a loom, then sew the cloth into clothing on a sewing table.

Which accomplishes what ?

[hwfanatic]

Major offenders are mods that add things or mechanics the AI is not used to dealing with. Everything embrasure-like or anything defensive that the AI is simply not programmed to overcome.



Mods that give you insight into valuable information (sortable tables, stats, planners) make decision-making better (not necessarily easier).

It is however at your discretion. I personally find it odd that people create these collections of "essential" mods that include 50 mods or more. WTF? How are they all essential? It doesn't make any sense. I am guilty, though, of not playing new alphas as soon as they come out. I, too, wait for certain mods to start the game. For example, I refuse to play the game without koisama's Numbers (even though it can be added at any time). I feel it is integral to the way I think and make decisions in Rimworld.

[b0rsuk]

Major offenders are mods that add things or mechanics the AI is not used to dealing with. Everything embrasure-like or anything defensive that the AI is simply not programmed to overcome.

Especially Combat Realism.

[Perq]

Major offenders are mods that add things or mechanics the AI is not used to dealing with. Everything embrasure-like or anything defensive that the AI is simply not programmed to overcome.

Especially Combat Realism.

Gotta admit that idea of ammunition sounds interesting (more resource managing, cuz why not). Maybe the side-arms thingy (a small knife for rifleman and pistol for swordman? Dunno). But the rest is just a mess. Map-long ranges make melee weapons absolutely obsolete. More powerful turrets is even worse. Current turrets are already kind-of-overpowered in some scenarios... :V

Ps. Don't I remember you from somewhere? Weren't you posting on Starbound's forums? Think I remember you from somewhere.

[OldManSteve]

Based on the Let's Play's of Rimworld I've seen recently, the players seem to assume the mods make their gameplay easier, but frequently over the course of time, it seems like it makes them struggle more than if they'd just play a normal game.

For example, some players install dozen mods and can't find the sun lamp because it's in the Garden Tools section now. Took one guy (Toxic Timewaster) 3 episodes to learn this.

Some players get modded super weapons and wind up blowing up chunks of their base when the enemy gets around/past their killbox and their character autofires their portable mortar at them, forgetting about the walls, switches, and pets.

Some players are used to menus being in one spot, and when the mods add new menus, the old ones get moved and they keep clicking on the wrong menu.

It's a bit funny when a players gets all excited when he buys an EMP rifle for 2000 silver and gets annoyed with it when he forgets his pawn has it when a zombie raid attacks. Yeah...that don't work on Zombies.

There was one player who created a colony with one pawn and a pet thrumbo using Prepare Carefully. Unfortunately, he didn't set the Handle ability high enough and he couldn't train 'Rick the Mule'. Eventually, another pawn joined with higher Handle and was able to train the thrumbo, but the first pawn was mad because he was not Rick's master.

The super turrets are great...until ZZZRTT and Solar Flare right in the middle of a mechanoid raid. And those embrasures...yeah the enemy can shoot through those holes.

Have fun with the mods, but read the manual first.

[Catastrophy]

I recommend playing with them mods and seeing for yourself.

[SilentP]

A lot of these posts have brought up some questions for me that I'd like to share with the community:

What constitutes a "Quality of Life" mod?

If I were to customize some pawns using "Prepare Carefully" what would you recommend?  Currently I just mash the random button until I get a pawn capable of hauling and then replace pyromaniac, psychic sensitive / hypersensitive.  I don't worry with chemical fascination, staggeringly ugly because they're pretty easy to manage around.

To those of you berating me and saying I should uninstall the mods:  It wasn't my intention to suggest the game is too easy or vanilla mode is to hard.  I was looking to generate intelligent discussion on ways to improve my gaming experience with Rimworld.  Perhaps someone would suggest "Use Jerry's Hardmode Mod" or "Try this mod, it makes growing things 10x slower".

Thanks to everyone who is contributing and a special thank you to all the modders out there who are doing such fantastic work.

[stu89pid]

A lot of these posts have brought up some questions for me that I'd like to share with the community:

What constitutes a "Quality of Life" mod?

If I were to customize some pawns using "Prepare Carefully" what would you recommend?  Currently I just mash the random button until I get a pawn capable of hauling and then replace pyromaniac, psychic sensitive / hypersensitive.  I don't worry with chemical fascination, staggeringly ugly because they're pretty easy to manage around.

To those of you berating me and saying I should uninstall the mods:  It wasn't my intention to suggest the game is too easy or vanilla mode is to hard.  I was looking to generate intelligent discussion on ways to improve my gaming experience with Rimworld.  Perhaps someone would suggest "Use Jerry's Hardmode Mod" or "Try this mod, it makes growing things 10x slower".

Thanks to everyone who is contributing and a special thank you to all the modders out there who are doing such fantastic work.

QoL mod is something that makes it less work to play, but not necessarily easier. For example, I used to reroll pawns until I had 3 starting pawns that could haul, EDB allows me to do this without having to mash re-roll forever. This is quality of life to me because you could technically re-roll indefinitely until you get a perfect pawn.

I recommend using EDB however it makes you happy. I can't stand pawns that can't haul, so I usually change that and create a backstory for my 3 starting pawns with similar professions etc. However, if your initial notion was that the game was to easy, use the EDB points sytem so you can customize pawns within a numerical limit, allows you to create pawns but not overpowered ones.

The easiest way to moderate difficulty is your biome and storyteller which you didn't mention. If you are thinking it is to easy, crank it up to Cassandra extreme before worrying about using mods for difficulty.

[Limdood]

SHHHHHHHH.....

let people enjoy things.

[gchristopher]

A big thing for me is storage: vanilla storage suuuuuccccckkkkkkkssssssss. Yeah, sure, just go throw all that stuff (food, ingredients, materials, etc) right on the floor, guys, don't organize it at all, just leave it right there. /s

I mean, humans have known about shelving, boxes and assorted containers since the early Stone Age. There is no reason whatsoever that storage has to be so hilariously inefficient, to the point where storage is going to be taking up a substantial portion of your mid/late-game colonies. None.

While vanilla is deficient in storage department, there is a very good reason. Visual clarity. You can determine at a glance which resources are where. If you allow for different types on the same tile, you can no longer see what is where. It's like DoomRL vs Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. In DoomRL it's like Rimworld - one item per tile, even when a monster drops several items. In DCSS you can have very many items, and looting the battlefield afterwards is pretty awful. You have to navigate through multiple menus.

That's not the reason. Rimworld is terrible at storage because it started as a clone of Dwarf Fortress from a few years ago, which has terrible storage, but at least the Dwarf Fortress interface lets you more easily inspect the contents of a tile and there's a workaround in the form of Quantum Stockpile mechanisms.

This is one place where Rimworld copies a problematic part of DF to the point of making it a fetish. It's probably one of the worst parts of RW right now because of the huge areas required for storage and how that impacts base design. The area required to store reasonable quantities of food exacerbates pathing problems, where the fridge might need be so big that someone that picks up a meal can no longer find their way back to a table to eat it. Or animals might starve to miscarriage or death because they can't find the area that contains the food allowed to them.

The root of the problem is that Tynan started with a great idea (copy a good game but try to make it more fun), but got stuck on some details (like the ridiculous 1-item-per-tile storage), that most players even in Dwarf Fortress have long since found ways around. There's a few other areas where slavish devotion to the inspiration have limited RimWorld design, but storage is definitely the most obvious bad idea.

[Derp]

A lot of these posts have brought up some questions for me that I'd like to share with the community:

What constitutes a "Quality of Life" mod?

That is the wrong question.

The right question is "what do you enjoy doing?"

Mods that add more of what you enjoy are good mods. 
Mods that remove what you don't enjoy are quality of life mods.
Mods that remove what you do enjoy are bad mods.

I don't like early-game workshop juggling, so I appreciate the mod that adds a 1x1 butchering spot.  That's a QoL mod for me.
For ice sheet players budgeting the resources to build the butchering station is critical to success, so a mod that trivializes it is a bad mod for them.

-ALSO-

Be aware that there is a sizable fraction of players (of any game) who are physically unable to avoid using every tool available to them.  And I mean EVERY tool.  If stabbing themselves in the eye with a fork had in-game benefits, they'd be blind by the end of this post. 

These are the people who build enormous ****-off kill boxes and then complain that it's the AI's fault for pathing into it.  Who dump on CR because they can't -not- make completely walled off embrasures that break targeting code and trivialize combat.  It's not that they don't understand why it's a problem, it's that they literally cannot stop themselves from abusing it.  "Just don't do that, then" isn't a sentence they can parse.  If something is possible to do and will bring even a trivial advantage, it must be done and the only solution is to make it no longer possible to do.

To those of you berating me and saying I should uninstall the mods:  It wasn't my intention to suggest the game is too easy or vanilla mode is to hard.  I was looking to generate intelligent discussion on ways to improve my gaming experience with Rimworld.  Perhaps someone would suggest "Use Jerry's Hardmode Mod" or "Try this mod, it makes growing things 10x slower".

Try Combat Realism with a tribal start, for a knife-to-the-gunfight feel.

Try the crash landing mod on hard.  Everyone lands injured, possibly dead, among the flaming wreckage of the ship.  Roleplay it like actual survivors would - try to save everyone above all else, even if you end up with ten crippled, nearly-useless colonists on the verge of constant breakdown.

The dense forest mod makes the world feel very different, and significantly affects the above mods too.  CR's ridiculous ranges don't help in heavy forest, and Crash Landing basically burns down half the map.