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Poll

Should we release Alpha 17 as just a refinements-and-fixes update, or wait to have new content as well?

Release refinements, and then new content in two updates
- 497 (38.7%)
Wait until there is significant new content to release in one update
- 787 (61.3%)

Total Members Voted: 1278


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Author Topic: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?  (Read 65061 times)

tem112

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2017, 08:12:51 PM »

Release bug fixes first.

If you release new content and a bug fixes, you cannot determine if the issues are from the new content or the previous content.

It makes no sense to potentially create new bugs while detrimentally affecting your ability to identify and fix them.

My two cents... asking for two patches.
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Tammabanana

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2017, 08:28:49 PM »

I'm on the fence. I voted for all-in-one, though, because the bugs I've seen aren't really rage-inducing for me, and the ones that would be, somebody's already put out a mod to fix in the meantime. I'm generally in favor of giving modders a longer stretch between alphas to refine/develop mods in progress, and to reduce the frequency of mod-users' frustrations with waiting for their favorites to update.

But in particular, I'd be in favor of whichever method is more helpful for, or less disruptive to, the Harmony/HugsLib/CCL/whatsit integration/collaboration efforts. I mean, I'm not really understanding the technical details, but it sounds like it's going to significantly decrease cross-mod incompatibility problems.
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Doctor Zedman

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2017, 09:04:57 PM »

I'm all for releasing bug fixes sooner rather than later- especially if it means a round of Name in the Games getting in  ::)

Getting to remove my own organs when I capture myself with a higher chance of success? Yes please. More features are great, but better working features are where it's at- especially since the content we have is already quite a bit since A16 added so much.
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Zhentar

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2017, 09:09:35 PM »

But in particular, I'd be in favor of whichever method is more helpful for, or less disruptive to, the Harmony/HugsLib/CCL/whatsit integration/collaboration efforts. I mean, I'm not really understanding the technical details, but it sounds like it's going to significantly decrease cross-mod incompatibility problems.

Harmony is entirely RimWorld version independent - in fact, it's entirely RimWorld independent, and can be used with other Unity games. So it shouldn't be a big impact for it either way.
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Arachnivore

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2017, 09:20:01 PM »

I see no reason to avoid finer grain iteration. You'll actually be giving people the choice that you're polling for right now. If people want fixes sooner and don't care about mods, they can update. If people want working mods, they can wait for the next update. By going with finer grain updates, you effectively give your players more choice in the matter. You also get feedback faster.

There will be a subset of mods that will be affected by update 17 but not update 18. Those modders can get to work updating their mods sooner rather than later, so the people who claim they have a ton of mods and would rather wait would actually have to wait *less time* for their mods to port if you go with finer grain updates. This is especially true if you're transparent about what you're changing. That way a modder will know if it's worth the effort to update to Alpha 17 compatibility or if they should hold off because Alpha 18 will require an overhaul.
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Grishnerf

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #65 on: February 08, 2017, 09:35:21 PM »

good things need time.
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Euzio

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2017, 10:30:16 PM »

Personally, I'd prefer to wait for a more comprehensive update rather than quick fix releases. There are Mods out there to circumvent some of the balance issues so its not such a big factor.

Also, it allows us to have more time to enjoy the current state of the game rather than having to keep restarting due to the update breaking saves and mod compatibility.
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IndustryStandard

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2017, 11:19:45 PM »

Yeah no, How about mods don't dictate the update schedule for an Early Access game.

As much as the users with over 100 mods might hate waiting for them to get updated, This game is still early access and this is just part of the package for mods to get broken with each release, you the user know this and so do the mod authors.

I rather we don't hold back game imbalances, bugs, and performance issues being fixed that are going to plague not just mod users, but also the vanilla users for months just because some people can't handle waiting a week or two for mods to get updated. Performance improvements especially can be the difference between playable and unplayable for some users, game play balance only serves for a better experience for everyone and so do bug fixes. Don't hold that further back because you want more stuff.
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Pushover

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2017, 11:29:01 PM »

I would say hold off on an official release, but push to unstable branch with no plan to update other than the most major of bugs until A17 official is ready to come out. That way you can get some feedback, and people with mods that break can continue with A16 as the latest stable release.
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SurrealSadi

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2017, 11:30:13 PM »

I say wait. Having an Alpha be nothing but bug fixes and balancing doesn't seem right.
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Laos

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2017, 11:43:21 PM »

I know we don't prescribe Alphas to a cycle in contrast to a monthly update process (a la Introversion) so I'm inclined to feel an Alpha should add features and feel like a significant step forward in the game.

That said, performance, especially game balancing, is a feature, IMO. A refined game experience that adds more logic to existing systems (how characters react, relationships, combat, etc.) sounds like an Alpha update to me.
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gratua

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2017, 11:43:56 PM »

I like the idea of an optimization release.  even if you delay A17 and add even more optimization, that's alright by me.  new content is fun and all, but a solid game is the foundation for everything.
thanks a bunch!
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XeronX

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #72 on: February 09, 2017, 12:04:49 AM »

I voted for longer and it is purely a Mod not be broken desire.  The Vanilla game is good, but I find it slightly thin in depth. I.E. I end up burning through the tech tree to fast, not enough joy objects and furniture, and needs a bit more end game.

Don't get me wrong love the game. Just Mods take something that is a solid 8/10 and make it a 10/10 in my book. I was just thinking recently with how much I have been playing when you were going to drop the next alpha and I was going to have to take a forced couple week break to give the modders time to catch up.

But thank you for asking us our opinion and whichever way you go I'll be back regardless.
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Hans Lemurson

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2017, 12:29:57 AM »

Please for the love of god wait to release new content. New content always adds more bugs and you won't know if something that is broken is because a fix didn't work or the new content screwed it.
Release bug fixes first.

If you release new content and a bug fixes, you cannot determine if the issues are from the new content or the previous content.

It makes no sense to potentially create new bugs while detrimentally affecting your ability to identify and fix them.

My two cents... asking for two patches.
From someone that is in IT and works with software updates all the time, make the refinements only update, don't introduce new issues if your goal is to remove old ones. you will have nothing to test against for improvement with out contamination.

I personally was on the fence until I really considered these points.  Release the bug-fixes now before the new content so that you can figure out what went wrong and how you broke things.
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Perq

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2017, 02:35:39 AM »

Push for the big release, if it saves your time. We are in Alpha after all, and the last thing we want is to stay here for long. :)
There is enough fun to be had with Alpha 16 to keep us entertained (and to be fair, a dozen of other games).

I've seen this happen to Starbound - developers dancing around modding and trying to not break save-files, meanwhile almost stopping the development of the game. I'd much rather have the game broken for some time and then being fully released half a year later than it being in a stasis for years because Timmy might cry about his save file being broken. :V
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