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Poll

Should we release Alpha 17 as just a refinements-and-fixes update, or wait to have new content as well?

Release refinements, and then new content in two updates
- 497 (38.7%)
Wait until there is significant new content to release in one update
- 787 (61.3%)

Total Members Voted: 1278


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Author Topic: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?  (Read 66223 times)

Stormfox

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2017, 04:14:45 PM »

First of all, I really really appreciate the general notion of doing a major balancing and fixing patch. Hopefully this will make another few "mandatory" mods superflous in the long term, similar to your relatively recent inclusion of a colonist bar, for example.

As for when to release next - personally I can wait, since I play heavily modded and would have to wait for the modders to find time to update anyways. I would likely wait out one update anyways if it came next week or so. But, since especially the medical system is a bit wonky right now, I can understand people that play relatively vanilla to want the tuning only update sooner.
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pdxsean

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2017, 04:21:58 PM »

I'd love to see a refinement release if it is save-game compatible. That would be amazing, as some of the gamey aspects of a16 (I'm looking at you, medicine) are frustrating in an otherwise complex and deep game.

If there's no save-game compatibility, I'm more on the fence. I'd still like to see optimization, but at the same time I'm quite happy with the game as it is despite some flaws. Setting aside wanderlust and the medical issues, A16 is still a better game than A15 in my book. I am perfectly happy playing it for a few more months waiting for new features to go with the rebalance.

Of course depending on the new features, some aspects of the balancing may be lost as the new features might cause problems.

Thanks as always for your hard work and dedication to the community Tynan!
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Synchrotron

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2017, 04:29:45 PM »

As someone who's playing the game with 73 active mods I would rather wait a bit longer for a bigger patch. Vanilla Rimworld is cool but it's hard to live without so many of the quality of life mods I use.

Any chance we could know some of the changes already made on Alpha17?
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jpinard

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2017, 04:30:10 PM »

I vote for refinements.  There are a lot of issues that need tending.  Thankfully all the mods I use have very active people behind them so I will use A16 right up til they completed.  Or maybe even jump and not wait for all the mods.  With balance maybe I won't even need some of them anymore.
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ChJees

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2017, 04:38:45 PM »

I will gladly wait a lot longer for A17. If you ever have been playing 7 Days to Die and waiting for their Alpha releases it should be no biggie.
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Profugo Barbatus

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2017, 04:39:54 PM »

I voted refinements.

With as active of a modding community as Rimworlds, supporting it is important. Longer release cycles allow Tynan to both improve the quality and consistency of what he delivers, and to fill out new features with the content he wants them to have, properly test everything, and allows better mods to develop over the longer release cycle. Everyone wins in the end.
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PerunPerunowy

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2017, 04:45:39 PM »

 i think more content it is what this game needs
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Lem Wright

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2017, 04:49:07 PM »

If it'll help with mod creation and in general, then yeah, wait until you've got more coming along to release it.
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Swatacular

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2017, 04:58:07 PM »

I really enjoy mods so I'm all for longer but better mod support
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Jimyoda

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2017, 05:11:21 PM »

In short, I voted 'wait and release A17 with content'.
I think if the release only has refinements and bugfixes but nothing new, it should not be called A17, rather A16b. But that doesn't seem to be something you're considering, maybe for reasons.

When A17 hits, it will get renewed interest and Youtubers and streamers will pick it up with hype. Viewers will come and will say 'okay, I'm watching, so what's new!??'. Don't want to have to respond with 'Oh, nothing new actually, just bugfixes and balancing'. ~yawn. Expectations would be more appropriate if it's an A16 revision. Every major version has come with some cool title, so without anything new, what could you possibly call it? And how would your (Tyan's) 'Hey look, a new Alpha!' video play out?
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MikeLemmer

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2017, 05:22:54 PM »

I vote release the refinements ASAP. It's an Early Access game, it's meant to be tested, and the mods will be broken eventually anyway.

But barring that, I agree with the previous poster's recommendation that you release a long-term Open Beta with the bugfixes & balance changes so we can individually choose whether to break stuff or not.
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Jorlem

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2017, 05:24:06 PM »

I'll second the suggestion of releasing a "16.5" opt in version via Steam's beta patch system.  Then, modders and players who want to play with the changes can choose to do so, while everyone else can keep using the current release without needing to do anything on their end.  This way you get the best of both worlds.
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MarvinKosh

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2017, 05:24:58 PM »

Tynan,

I'm going to challenge your point of letting the AI be sub-optimal for balance reasons.

Because there are places where the AI is not sub-optimal, but just insane. I've lost track of the number of hours I've spent on Please Haul Perishables. It's not a mod to reduce micro, it's a mod to reduce insanity.

Insanity being 'hey, look guys, there's a whole stack of corn over there waiting to be taken to storage, ooh here's two little bits of steel right at my feet, I'll haul those instead' x many iterations because the AI hasn't been told to do anything differently.

How does it even affect balance if corn is hauled away before steel is? I honestly can't think how.

Just try to keep an open mind, that's all I ask.

As for the topic at hand, I voted refinements but you could read that as refinements plus refinements and AI if you like. ;)

swizard

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2017, 05:29:28 PM »

From someone that is in IT and works with software updates all the time, make the refinements only update, don't introduce new issues if your goal is to remove old ones. you will have nothing to test against for improvement with out contamination.
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kenmtraveller

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Re: Should Ludeon release Alpha 17 as refinements, or wait for new content too?
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2017, 05:38:36 PM »

First of all, it's incredible how great this game is, especially given that it's developed by just a couple of people.
I voted for an incremental update (16.5)... and yeah  , I'd be fine with it being on the beta tab.  But so many sytems were put in place in v16... I think an update solely based on refinement is fine.  But, I don't use mods, FWIW.

On the subject of AI sub-optimality:
It's jarring for me when the AI makes decisions that seem really bad, so if it's easy to fix them I think it's worthwhile.

I'll just give one example:  If I tell a pawn to go pick up the contents of a crashed cargo pod on the other side of the map, once he gets there he aggregates multiple stacks and carries back what he's capable of , which is great.
But, if the same pawn is loading a launch pod that I'm sending to another colony, he will instead walk over to my corn field where I just harvested corn and take a separate trip for each tiny stack. 
I expect this is an oversight, I'm just giving it as an example.  But, if it were intended to balance launch pods, it would be a bad way to do so because:
1) it's inconsistent (pawns behave smartly when hauling, but less smart when loading)
2) it takes us out of the space of 'being in the game' because the loading is occurring in a way it never would in reality
3) it forces one to be gamist in order to work around it... making sure that everything is hauled from the field before launching the cargo pod.

Ken
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