I think only an addition of skills and jobs will save this game :>

[Project 06]

I've said it in other threads and I'll say it again:

Rimworld suffers from Master Syndrome. For a number of skills, like:
Cooking,
Crafting,
Medicine*,
Animals,
Social,
Construction (quality),

you only care how high your BEST colonist is. One skill 14 cook is better than three skill 12 cooks. A skill 8 doctor can't assist a skill 11 doctor, he can only serve as a backup and heal the better doctor if both are sick.

For a number of skills you only need 1 colonist who performs this role and you're done. Other colonists who come later and are nearly as good give an impression that they're useless. Because effectively they are, they only serve as backups to protect from the bus factor.

This is an excellent way of talking about this issue, it would greatly improve the value of individual colonists if two of them could cooperate in the same task, to help improve speed or success rate. This may cause problems however, with how colonists would position themselves when in cooperative mode. As workshops only have a single "work space", changes would have to be made that allow multiple workers at the same table.

[Lightzy]

Dorf, this is true (also I've been playing DF long before rimworld).
But as said, without the skills the jobs are meaningless.
There's no point in adding a 'weaving' job if in any case your "CRAFTER" is going to do it, like he's gonna do every other job.

And if you add the skills, the jobs automatically come with them.
Unless I misunderstood something.

Well yeah, it actually doesn't matter much because I think it's already eminently clear what the 'suggestion' is and we should probably move on to more suggestions

[SpaceDorf]

Yes you actually misunderstood me, but I am told I can be confusing at times

So the definition of the words in my mind :
Skills -> Character Attribute, which defines how proficient a pawn is at what he does.

Job,Worktypes -> Things you can assign a pawn to do in the work tab.
And priorise.

The point in adding the Weaver job would be to tell different Crafters to specialize.
Or if you only have a single Crafter you can tell him finish the fucking shirt ( tailor )
before weaving a new batch of cloth ( weaver )

Skills -> What a Pawn can do -> Diversity

Jobs  -> What a Pawn has to do, and When -> Control

in that Skills and Jobs are totally seperate, only connected by which skill is needed for a job.

What is affected by the number of Jobs connected to a Skill is the XP gain in that Skill.

Crafter -> lots of high work jobs -> lots of XP Gain over Time. -> skill grows fast
Doctor -> dependend on playstile and storyteller -> occasional job, not much XP Gain over Time. -> skill grows slow
Grower -> tons of small jobs, connected to critical work -> lots of XP ->
skill grows really fast

==== EDIT ====

Concerning the playstyle and number of warm bodies you need :
There is now the possibility for a caravan crew in addition to your base crew, which should consist of a trader and some fighters, who can't really contribute to your colony on site.

[Lurmey]

The point in adding the Weaver job would be to tell different Crafters to specialize.
Or if you only have a single Crafter you can tell him finish the fucking shirt ( tailor )
before weaving a new batch of cloth ( weaver )

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, I'm too lazy to go back and read the previous posts so you'll have to excuse me if it has. With regards to specialisation, there is Fluffy's WorkTab mod that you could use to limit certain colonists to certain sub-jobs. So instead of one doctor doing all the doctoring, you could limit your main doctor to performing surgery, and have lesser-skilled doctors just do ordinary treatment. You could have multiple constructors, one of which is specialised in deconstruction first and foremost. etc etc

[AngleWyrm]

You'll have one Pawn responsible for 4-7 tasks, whilst your typical Dwarf is responsible for 2-4 even early on.

This gets to part of advancement and progress: As the size of the colony grows the individuals within it can focus down on less multi-tasking and become specialists in a field.

[SpaceDorf]

The point in adding the Weaver job would be to tell different Crafters to specialize.
Or if you only have a single Crafter you can tell him finish the fucking shirt ( tailor )
before weaving a new batch of cloth ( weaver )

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, I'm too lazy to go back and read the previous posts so you'll have to excuse me if it has. With regards to specialisation, there is Fluffy's WorkTab mod that you could use to limit certain colonists to certain sub-jobs. So instead of one doctor doing all the doctoring, you could limit your main doctor to performing surgery, and have lesser-skilled doctors just do ordinary treatment. You could have multiple constructors, one of which is specialised in deconstruction first and foremost. etc etc

You were even to lazy to read my Signature ..

Yes I know of and use Fluffies Mods.
I still would like the vanilla game to be more manageable.
Thats the problem of responding to the last post, instead of reading at least the first page ..

[Lightzy]

Dorf, I don't like that suggestion. Unless again I misunderstood it.

I'm opposed to having a crafter. I think it's stupid and a terrible compromise for no reason or benefit.

Remove the concept of 'crafter' completely.
Instead, like in DF, have weaver, tailor, gunsmith, armorsmith, etc etc etc.


I don't think that giving 2 crafters different jobs to do will make ANY difference to the game because A) you can already do that pretty much (setting quality thresholds on crafting projects), and worse, B) because it simply won't change the game in any way. You'd still want your best 'crafter' to do everything other than cut stones.

[SpaceDorf]

Sorry Lightzy,

I don't like it this way either.

What I did, was again just a description of what I mean, What is Skill, What is Job/Work this time mapped against the status quo of the game. With Tailor/Weaver as an example.

I would like to split some skills too, the especially the crafter skill.
And I would like more Bills to need 2 skills .. Doctor/Crafter for Medicine is a good example.

I would like to split the skills like this :

Medicine can stay, but split the jobs into Nurse and Surgeon

Construction should become for a better word Construction(Worker, Carpenter, Mason ) and Mechanic     : Construction does anything with wood and stone while Mechanic does anything which uses electricity

Crafter could be split into the 3 Jobs that are allready there, bills should then be combined as second skill with Art, Mechanic or Construction
meaning stone statues need Art/Construction, Guns need Smithing/Mechanic

thats all I can think of for the moment.

[Trylobyte]

What I'd like to mention in this discussion (again) is to keep this in mind:

First:
The more skills you have the more colonists you need to do the same jobs.
Secondly:
The game is not balanced around having very large colonies.

Consider crafting.  Right now, one crafter does all your crafting - Stonecutting, smithing, tailoring, machining.  If the game rolls someone with good Crafting they can do all that.  Now divide that into its four component skills.  Now you'll need a Stonecutter, a Blacksmith, a Tailor, and a Machinist.  The odds of one colonist having decent scores in even two of those jobs is not great, so you'll need 2-3 colonists to do the job (you don't really need a Stonecutter) that 1 colonist did before.  Apply this to too many skills and eventually those three starting colonists are going to be lacking vital skills your colony desperately needs to survive.

[SpaceDorf]

Exactly.

That is the point when you need to get creative .. when scraping by becomes
the common and not rebuilding a glitterworld colony with 6 people.
You will be less likely to ignore calls for help, or a bad trait, because the bring much needed skills ..

It might sound unfair at first .. but the thrill and the stories you get will be much more worth it.

[grinch]

A skill 8 doctor can't assist a skill 11 doctor, he can only serve as a backup and heal the better doctor if both are sick.

Optionally breaking down some skills would solve that. Add a third detailed work schedule menu that divides doctoring into operating, treatment and nursing (feeding and cheering up patients). Then bad doctors can do nursing, medium doctors can do treatment and your best doctor does operations.

+1 . Same thing for crafting, delete tailoring and smithing, to be crafting subskills (like nursing, treatment, operating) and add stonecutting, drug crafting, maching, component making,etc

[dazhat]

True... for us veteran players this is nothing but convienience... but for newer players  that would be daunting

How about keep the current skills but have specific skills underneath. So butchering a creature helps improve your top level cooking skill but also improves your 'meat butcher' skill. So a colonist with high 'food preparation' who never butchers will know a bit about how to butcher a creature but not everything.

I'm thinking of how some skills are transferable. If get very good at putting guns together presumable you would be more adept at taking apart mechanoids and saving more resources.

Also you could hide the lower level skills from new players until they are ready to learn about them without it having a huge impact because the top level general skills would still be a rough guide to how effective colonists would be at different tasks.

[AngleWyrm]

How about keep the current skills but have specific skills underneath.

The final destination of this is that every uniquely identifiable task is a skill. Mending a Muffalo Leather Parka is different from Mending Muffalo Leather Pants. Making Four Simple Meals is a little different from making A Simple Meal.

It could probably be implemented as 100% experience for doing the exact same task, and a drop-off for some measure of distance between tasks.