Diseases are really annoying.

Started by Rhine, February 21, 2017, 04:06:26 PM

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Rhine


What am I supposed to do about this? Is there a way to turn them off?

Titanite

Go to the colonist health tab and order to administre penoxycyline (assuming you have any). Also the colonists needs a lot of rest and medicine (sometimes the herbal won't be enough).

I think diseases are very balanced. It's a hardtime, but easy to manage if you have some penoxycyline and medicine in stock.

If you scroll to the health and check the diease you can see how his immunity system is developing.
If Rimworld and factory could have a baby that would be great.

Derp

Quote from: Titanite on February 21, 2017, 04:19:41 PM
I think diseases are very balanced. It's a hardtime, but easy to manage if you have some penoxycyline and medicine in stock.
"If you don't have [specific item] by now, you die" is not in any way good game design.

Boston

If you don't have medicine (and not just any medication, the "right" medication) in the real world..... you are probably going to die from disease.

Disease, not war, not injuries, not accidents, is the number one killer of humanity. Still is today.

The only thing that should be changed about diseases in Rimworld is that they shouldn't be an "event", like they are now, where they pop up at random. Instead, they should be tied to colony cleanliness.

Your colonists live in filth? Get Infections and Plague!
You have a poor cook? Get food poisoning and parasites!

Rhine

Quote from: Boston on February 21, 2017, 05:31:50 PM
If you don't have medicine (and not just any medication, the "right" medication) in the real world..... you are probably going to die from disease.

Disease, not war, not injuries, not accidents, is the number one killer of humanity. Still is today.

The only thing that should be changed about diseases in Rimworld is that they shouldn't be an "event", like they are now, where they pop up at random. Instead, they should be tied to colony cleanliness.

Your colonists live in filth? Get Infections and Plague!
You have a poor cook? Get food poisoning and parasites!
Thats pretty much what I had in mind, the rng isn't very interesting, it just feels like I'm getting screwed over because "challenge"

Titanite

After a couples of playthroughs you already know most of the events that going to happen, you just need to prepare for them.
Technically:
"If you don't have [specific item] by now, you die"
If you don't have defense, you will die;
If you don't have offensive gear, you will die (poison ships you know);
If you don't have medicine, you will die;
If you don't have food supply, you will die;
If you don't have infrastructure (including ambientation, furniture etc) for your colonist they will freak out and the events that will end up leading them to die.
And the list goes on and on  ;D
If Rimworld and factory could have a baby that would be great.

Hans Lemurson

The difference is that the necessity of those things isn't concealed, and they can all be provided domestically.  Bad luck with traders can mean no meds at all.  Death can be caused by being short on cash over a year ago.

This is what makes it feel more "unfair" than other mechanics, whether it is balanced or not.
Mental break: playing RimWorld
Hans Lemurson is hiding in his room playing computer games.
Final straw was: Overdue projects.

Perq

So far I have never had a situation that I had no opportunity to get peno and got a life-threatening disease. There is a huge difference between this, that can be counter-played and, for example, solar flare which simply fucks you over, no matter what you do (or did in the past).
I'm nobody from nowhere who knows nothing about anything.
But you are still wrong.

O Negative

I had a mod back in A15 that gave most diseases a vector.
Insectoids were the primary vector for all forms of parasitic diseases. (Malaria, Sleeping Sickness, Gut Worms, Muscle Parasite)
Rat bites spread the plague.
Mechanoid shots had a chance of injecting a colonist with mechanites.
It wasn't perfect, but I preferred having cause over randomness by a long shot.


I'm a huge fan of the idea of filth increasing the chance of diseases like plague and the flu. It's really simple and adds a meaningful dimension to the disease mechanic.
I've said it before so many times, but I would also love a communicable disease system :D
Asymptomatic raiders/caravan members subjecting newly landed colonists to local disease just sounds so good to me. :)

Hans Lemurson

Quote from: O Negative on February 22, 2017, 02:12:00 AM
I had a mod back in A15 that gave most diseases a vector.
Insectoids were the primary vector for all forms of parasitic diseases. (Malaria, Sleeping Sickness, Gut Worms, Muscle Parasite)
Rat bites spread the plague.
Mechanoid shots had a chance of injecting a colonist with mechanites.
It wasn't perfect, but I preferred having cause over randomness by a long shot.


I'm a huge fan of the idea of filth increasing the chance of diseases like plague and the flu. It's really simple and adds a meaningful dimension to the disease mechanic.
I've said it before so many times, but I would also love a communicable disease system :D
Asymptomatic raiders/caravan members subjecting newly landed colonists to local disease just sounds so good to me. :)
That all sounds pretty cool.  Communicable diseases would be funny if you could try to deliberately spread plagues...

But I agree that cause-and-effect is always good to have.  It always bothered me that 3 out of 6 colonists might come down with the flu several weeks after any visitors.  Not only does it come from nowhere, but how do only HALF of the people in a cramped shack on the ice get sick?
Mental break: playing RimWorld
Hans Lemurson is hiding in his room playing computer games.
Final straw was: Overdue projects.

b0rsuk

One of the very few things the screenshot shows is you had at least 9 colonists. In a colony this big you should have at least one good doctor, and possibly even glitterworld medicine. If not, you can put some of your colonists in cryosleep caskets - you had plenty of time to clear the ancient danger rooms. Maybe save your most valuable colonists, maybe the oldest (because they have worst immunity).

Derp

#11
Quote from: Titanite on February 21, 2017, 10:26:48 PM
After a couples of playthroughs you already know most of the events that going to happen, you just need to prepare for them.
Technically:
"If you don't have [specific item] by now, you die"
If you don't have defense, you will die;
If you don't have offensive gear, you will die (poison ships you know);
If you don't have medicine, you will die;
If you don't have food supply, you will die;
If you don't have infrastructure (including ambientation, furniture etc) for your colonist they will freak out and the events that will end up leading them to die.
And the list goes on and on  ;D
This pretty much illustrates my point.  "Defense" and "food supply" versus "redundant doses of Penoxycycline previously purchased from randomly-occurring traders and held in reserve for this very event because it's nearly useless otherwise and cannot be obtained on demand."  Do you see the contrast in specificity?

Imagine if there were an event where a fraction of your colonists suddenly declared they were Space Irish, and could digest nothing but raw potatoes for a while, even if it caused them to starve to death among piles of lavish meals.  Players who know about the Space Irish event could dutifully pack a way a few potatoes each game, and inform people who grumble that it's their own fault for not having potatoes on hand, but would that really seem like good game design to you?  Who would find that fun?

Quote from: Boston on February 21, 2017, 05:31:50 PM
If you don't have medicine (and not just any medication, the "right" medication) in the real world..... you are probably going to die from disease.
If you want to eye arell it, Rimworld diseases are ridiculously lethal when compared to their real versions. 

Since the OP mentions plague, consider the Black Plague, the single greatest pandemic in human history.  Even with no medical treatment or concept of hygiene whatsoever (because doctors at the time thought that demons, bad smells and eating too much warm food was what made you sick), patients still had a 30%-70% chance of survival.  It was deadly, but not a death sentence.

Also: people have been living in Earth's rainforests for all of human history.  What are the odds that someone could make it to puberty in a Rimworld rainforest without ever catching malaria and dying because there's no such thing as glitterworld medicine?

[ETA] On second thought, one of the greatest pandemics in human history.  There's been a few that were probably deadlier - smallpox in the New World comes to mind.

Titanite

Quote from: Derp on February 22, 2017, 10:52:35 AM
This pretty much illustrates my point.  "Defense" and "food supply" versus "redundant doses of Penoxycycline previously purchased from randomly-occurring traders and held in reserve for this very event because it's nearly useless otherwise and cannot be obtained on demand."  Do you see the contrast in specificity?

Imagine if there were an event where a fraction of your colonists suddenly declared they were Space Irish, and could digest nothing but raw potatoes for a while, even if it caused them to starve to death among piles of lavish meals.  Players who know about the Space Irish event could dutifully pack a way a few potatoes each game, and inform people who grumble that it's their own fault for not having potatoes on hand, but would that really seem like good game design to you?  Who would find that fun?

First of all, I don't think that having proper medication in a very hostile enviroment is redundant. Having proper medical supply is as important as having defenses and food.
As we know well, Rimworld simulates an accidental colonization enviroment, the game master delivers situations that would relate to such enviroment, for example: getting sick, raided etc.
The real problem that you have to solve isn't "having the right thing at the right time" this is a consequence of the real problem that is managing and planning every step in order to be prepared for what may or may not hit you, the consequence of that is having the proper medication, proper gear, proper infrastructure etc.

I think that a game that requires you to plan and manage resources in order to have the right thing the right time is a good simulation design. You need to plan and cover several areas otherwise they will hit you. Doesn't matter if it's a space irish pandemic or a mechanoid invasion.

If you only think about food supply, you will die of diseases or raids/infestations/mechanoids; if you only think about the defenses, you will die of hungry or diseases etc. You need to plan and manage several aspects in order to be prepared. I do think that it's a good game design.

Tho I do think that the diseases should be less RNGish and more enviromentally related, as some comrades stated above. If you live close to swamp you should more likely get some diseases while living a dirty place should more likely give you others. I do think that could be improved.
If Rimworld and factory could have a baby that would be great.

Derp

Quote from: Titanite on February 22, 2017, 11:37:27 AM
Quote from: Derp on February 22, 2017, 10:52:35 AM
This pretty much illustrates my point.  "Defense" and "food supply" versus "redundant doses of Penoxycycline previously purchased from randomly-occurring traders and held in reserve for this very event because it's nearly useless otherwise and cannot be obtained on demand."  Do you see the contrast in specificity?

Imagine if there were an event where a fraction of your colonists suddenly declared they were Space Irish, and could digest nothing but raw potatoes for a while, even if it caused them to starve to death among piles of lavish meals.  Players who know about the Space Irish event could dutifully pack a way a few potatoes each game, and inform people who grumble that it's their own fault for not having potatoes on hand, but would that really seem like good game design to you?  Who would find that fun?

First of all, I don't think that having proper medication in a very hostile enviroment is redundant. Having proper medical supply is as important as having defenses and food.
As we know well, Rimworld simulates an accidental colonization enviroment, the game master delivers situations that would relate to such enviroment, for example: getting sick, raided etc.
The real problem that you have to solve isn't "having the right thing at the right time" this is a consequence of the real problem that is managing and planning every step in order to be prepared for what may or may not hit you, the consequence of that is having the proper medication, proper gear, proper infrastructure etc.

I think that a game that requires you to plan and manage resources in order to have the right thing the right time is a good simulation design. You need to plan and cover several areas otherwise they will hit you. Doesn't matter if it's a space irish pandemic or a mechanoid invasion.

If you only think about food supply, you will die of diseases or raids/infestations/mechanoids; if you only think about the defenses, you will die of hungry or diseases etc. You need to plan and manage several aspects in order to be prepared. I do think that it's a good game design.

Tho I do think that the diseases should be less RNGish and more enviromentally related, as some comrades stated above. If you live close to swamp you should more likely get some diseases while living a dirty place should more likely give you others. I do think that could be improved.
You're still doing it.  "Medication."  "Resources."  "Food supply."  "Defenses."  Defenses can be a killbox or a pillbox or a swarm of attack Yorkies.  No enemy currently in the game can only be stopped by a single weapon.  There are no werewolves who can only be hurt by silver weapons, or super-caterpillars that can only be damaged by mortar fire.  I think people would rightly find those annoying as hell.

But I'm using a proper noun here, that I just looked up on the wiki to make sure I spelled it right. Penoxycyline.  Say it with me.  Penoxycyline.  Damndest stuff you've ever seen.  Forget all about hygiene.  Lack it and your pawn's cuisine.  Penoxycyline.  Penoxycyline.

Shurp

Don't forget that medicine is broken in A16. You can survive a plague event with ordinary medicine of you buff it up to 85%.  Herbal might even work if you buff it back to 70% and have an awesome doctor.

Without buffing? Your best choice is Devmode.
If you give an annoying colonist a parka before banishing him to the ice sheet you'll only get a -3 penalty instead of -5.

And don't forget that the pirates chasing a refugee are often better recruits than the refugee is.