Diseases are really annoying.

[PetWolverine]

I had a fort in a boreal forest with summer temperatures rarely over 80F and winter temps well below zero. I had 2 doctors, the best one missing a kidney, the second best practicing to get to a level where she could operate on the first. I had a decent supply of penoxycyline.

A bunch of colonists came down with the plague, including both doctors. I think it was about half the fort. I administered penoxy, confined them all to their beds as much as possible, but inevitably had my doctors getting up to treat the others - and the single-kidney doctor had to at least get up to treat the other doctor. I only had herbal meds - and a very small stack of regular medicine that I held off on using - but it looked like everyone was going to pull through.

Then, before the plague-ridden colonists had developed immunity, we got a wave of malaria (in winter!) affecting even more colonists. And the best doctor, the one with one kidney who already had the plague, got malaria. She had already had her penoxy, and I gave her the regular medicine, but ultimately the only way to save her was to cheat. Which I did, because malaria should never have happened in that biome.

This was on Cassandra Rough. So, I think aside from the inanity of getting malaria in -10F weather and the 100% untreated fatality rate, I think the storytellers considerably underestimate the difficulty of dealing with diseases. Sending back-to-back disease events like that and infecting both my doctors seemed a bit, I don't know, extreme.

[Shurp]

That does sound odd, getting hit by two disease events so quickly. How many colonists did you have? I never have had that happen to me but I rarely have more than 10 colonists.

[O Negative]

I've had the same thing happen to me actually. Not exactly as you, but very similar. I agree that the storyteller has no idea how to properly evaluate the affect a disease incident will have on a colony. So, it either doesn't throw one out there, or throws too many in a short period.

[Rhine]

That does sound odd, getting hit by two disease events so quickly. How many colonists did you have? I never have had that happen to me but I rarely have more than 10 colonists.

The original image from this thread was actually two events in quick succession.

[PetWolverine]

I think I had about 12 colonists plus some prisoners. The plague hit 7 pawns and malaria 9 IIRC, some of whom were prisoners.

There was a plague incident later that I totally overreacted to because of this, with penoxy plus full bed rest until the affected pawns were immune, plus my one healthy doc taking wake-up for days so she could be either treating patients or crafting medicine 24 hours a day. The disease was only at around 70% by the time the pawns were immune. Malaria is the real killer.

[Rafe009]

I've had mass plague events but by the time i did i had tons of penoxycyline and about 40% of my most important pawns were already administering it on a 7 day interval though it should be 5.

Regardless, with good hospital beds, vital monitors and also forcing your infected pawns to immediately take a dose of penoxy it wasn't much of an issue. Just make sure if you're infected you get lots of sleep.

[Perq]

This pretty much illustrates my point.  "Defense" and "food supply" versus "redundant doses of Penoxycycline previously purchased from randomly-occurring traders and held in reserve for this very event because it's nearly useless otherwise and cannot be obtained on demand."  Do you see the contrast in specificity?

Imagine if there were an event where a fraction of your colonists suddenly declared they were Space Irish, and could digest nothing but raw potatoes for a while, even if it caused them to starve to death among piles of lavish meals.  Players who know about the Space Irish event could dutifully pack a way a few potatoes each game, and inform people who grumble that it's their own fault for not having potatoes on hand, but would that really seem like good game design to you?  Who would find that fun?

How is need to have medicine any different from need of defenses?

Redundant fortifications of Penoxycycline improvised turrets previously purchased built from randomly-occurring traders metal and held in reserve for this very event because it's nearly useless otherwise and cannot be obtained on demand (while the attack is coming, since building stuff takes time)."

You example is simply exaggeration, showing a ridiculous situation and having it as an argument against diseases. But it also an argument against building towers. Or having food reserve.
Or anything that you have to prepare for.
Would that casual cow clicker be fun enough for you?

[Hans Lemurson]

...
Would that casual cow clicker be fun enough for you?

Honestly I've always thought that RimWorld could use a lot more cow-clicking.  My strategy is to click more cows when I need more milk.  It's balanced because you have to click.

[Derp]

How is need to have medicine any different from need of defenses?

Redundant fortifications of Penoxycycline improvised turrets previously purchased built from randomly-occurring traders metal and held in reserve for this very event because it's nearly useless otherwise and cannot be obtained on demand (while the attack is coming, since building stuff takes time)."

The difference is you don't need turrets.  Good weapons and well-planned defensive fortifications will do.  Or a shoddy killbox with enough dakka.  Or a deadfall maze.  Or a little bit of all of the above.

You need Penoxycyline.  If you didn't, I'd agree with you.  If mandatory bedrest were enough to shake off most disease at the cost of losing some possibly-critical pawns for a few days, and if medicine slowed down the disease progression enough to let them keep working (to different degrees depending on med quality), and penoxycyline was just a rapid cure that let you shake off the event without much disruption, that'd be fine.  But as it is disease is a race, and malaria has a 40% head start.  Without penoxycyline - one specific item, accept no substitutes - the pawn will die.

Would that casual cow clicker be fun enough for you?

Grow up.

[Hans Lemurson]

Malaria isn't generally as fatal as depicted in RimWorld.  Untreated, it will result in a chronic condition that flares up regularly and saps your health until you die, but the game treats it like it's Smallpox or something.

Untreated Malaria should just result in chronically sick pawns with penalties to movement/consciousness/blood filtration/metabolism, who have occasional flareups of fever that will leave them bedridden and in need of rescue.

Penoxycycline should be a "Thank god I can finally rid my pawns of this affliction!" thing, not "My pawns will be dead without this."

[BoogieMan]

I don't have a problem with diseases, I like the extra something to manage, and the practice for my doctors.. And it's better than a solar flare or some of the other events.


What I have a problem with is how commonly doctors fail. Even bionic improved skill 20 doctors in an immaculate perfect hospital. It wouldn't be so bad if it didn't outright destroy valuable bionic parts for "minor" failures, or obliterate parts of the patient during basic operations far away from where they would be working.

[Jibbles]

I don't play with diseases enabled anymore as I find them annoying as well, even if I don't lose a colonist over it. I wouldn't mind diseases such as flu plague etc if they were a bit rare and contagious and less RNG.  For instance if a trader is ill, then you'll catch the flu from them if you were to barter anything.

It's interesting to see peoples opinions on these diseases.  Most want to compare it with our world, and feel the diseases/treatments should be implemented the same way it's handled in our world.  We are in a different realm and a different timeline in rimworld. So I would like to see those kind of diseases pop up less often and instead have diseases that we can't compare to since we are not familiar with them.  I find that fibrous mechanites fit well within rimworld. I think it would be more interesting to catch unique diseases from taming animals such as boomalopes.  Or have reactions from pollution introduced into the environment in case any more power sources gets implemented.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I want less RNG and more scifi when it comes to dealing with diseases.

[Beider]

Diseases are really trivial unless they hit you very early when you got 2-3 colonists. After that you usually can have all your guys on Penoxycyline at all times, specially judging from that screenshot. If you had that many colonists you should have had a chance to get them all Penoxycyline (unless you started with that many colonists). Even if you can't buy it directly you can usually get neutroamine and make it yourself.

I don't particularly like this new disease design though, as now it has become a checkbox you check and those events don't matter anymore. I preferred the old design where you could relatively easily save your colonists if you forced them to stay in bed and treated them. Because this often turned into you having to make some hard decisions since there is always work to be done. Do you draft them for the attack and risk the disease killing them or do you leave them in bed and have a weaker defence? etc...

I would personally be a fan of having the old design back but with either a huge decrease in immunity gain or boost in disease progress if your colonist is not in bed. That way something like disease + mental break or disease + raid will be very dangerous.

[Shurp]

I agree with the idea that diseases should be more of a story element than an RNG element. The fibrous mechanites are cool.  Having colonists spreading diseases to each other would be entertaining too.  Do you wall up your sick colonist with a pile of pemmican and wait for his disease to pass or do you treat him and hope your sanitary practices keep your doctors from getting sick and infecting everyone else?  Cleanliness of your base would have a huge impact on the likelihood of contagion.

Also this is a planet that presumably was paved over by apocalyptic war at some point.  Weaponized infections should turn up now and then - anthrax, smallpox, etc.  And maybe the pirates decide to spray your colony from orbit before invading.

Beirder, you can easily bring back the old design.  Just increase the effectiveness of healroot and medkits.  Balance their effectiveness correctly and you'll bring back that stay in bed tradeoff with survivability.

But the key element is making sure the game stays playable.  "Heads he lives, tails he dies" isn't much fun.  "Damn, I'm out of medkits, let me give him some healroot.  Yay!  He lived!  Oh crap, but now he's blind" creates much more interesting possibilities...

[Perq]

How is need to have medicine any different from need of defenses?

Redundant fortifications of Penoxycycline improvised turrets previously purchased built from randomly-occurring traders metal and held in reserve for this very event because it's nearly useless otherwise and cannot be obtained on demand (while the attack is coming, since building stuff takes time)."

The difference is you don't need turrets.  Good weapons and well-planned defensive fortifications will do.  Or a shoddy killbox with enough dakka.  Or a deadfall maze.  Or a little bit of all of the above.

You need Penoxycyline.  If you didn't, I'd agree with you.  If mandatory bedrest were enough to shake off most disease at the cost of losing some possibly-critical pawns for a few days, and if medicine slowed down the disease progression enough to let them keep working (to different degrees depending on med quality), and penoxycyline was just a rapid cure that let you shake off the event without much disruption, that'd be fine.  But as it is disease is a race, and malaria has a 40% head start.  Without penoxycyline - one specific item, accept no substitutes - the pawn will die.

Would that casual cow clicker be fun enough for you?

Grow up.

Redundant fortifications of Penoxycycline improvised turrets Good weapons and well-planned defensive fortifications/shoddy killbox with enough dakka/deadfall maze/little bit of all of the above previously purchased built from randomly-occurring traders metal and held in reserve for this very event because it's nearly useless otherwise and cannot be obtained on demand (while the attack is coming, since building stuff takes time)."

Want me to go on?

Anything that you can prepare for and counter effectively is good design. Everything that cannot be countered is bad design.
This does not mean it is necessarily balanced properly, but the general idea is good. Solar flare is a good example of fuck you, RNG wins.
This is where you should be pointing your guns - not diseases that are simple check of did you try to get medicine the first occasion you got.

PS. Well, it is kind of rude to suggest that I should grow up. I get it that you might be mad at me for pointing it out, but this is really what you are asking for - get rid of difficulty because it got me. I only hope this is not the way you want to counter my argument.