Good arguments for water system ?

[Jstank]

Couldn't someone make a mod that has a building like quarry, or the fishing peer mod produce buckets of water instead of fish or rocks. Then  water is required to make meals, so you can tie the water need to the food need?

Saying that the game doesn't handle needs well is kind of a misnomer. It is just another bar to keep track of. The thirst bar, you either have access to water or you don't.

[Beider]

Tynan is interested in game mechanics that are fun and interact with each other. So, I'll try to answer your question by following those guidelines.
While I prefer things to remain simple, I see all of the following to be rather reasonable additions.

Health
Much in the same way famine (lack of food) can be detrimental to the health of your colonists, dehydration adds more to maintaining colonist health, which is currently a trivial task.
It doesn't have to be mundane, and there are plenty of ways of making this more interesting.
I think you already understand this to be one of the main arguments.

Production/Foraging
Water can be collected from water tiles already in the game manually, or collected automatically by the water pump already in the game.
Rain barrels collect rain in a similar way wind turbines generate power based on the weather.
Certain plants (ie. Cacti) can be harvested for their water contents.
Dehydration of food (unappetizing) to prolong the shelf-life of food drastically, and rehydration of food with water as a resource.
*This is where the main "fun" problem solving is, if you ask me.

Storyteller/Events
While I don't think floods are a necessary addition, droughts/lack of rain in otherwise "wet" biomes could cause interesting issues for people.

Growing
As others have already stated, growing could be and should be way harder than it currently is.
I'd be content with the removal/rarity of blight events in exchange for a water/maintenance requirement.
I'm not sure I'm entirely fond of the idea of wild plants having a constantly calculated water need, though...



Please, don't perpetuate the idea that a water need will/must be accompanied by a completely mundane hygiene need.
A mod that only adds a water need/mechanic would be a much better example; confounding variables are never good.
Most RimWorld players agree: This isn't The Sims...

The hygiene argument is bad, because a water need doesn't inherently advocate for a hygeine need.
Please, leave it out of this discussion.

The thing with this is I see this simply ending in one of two extremes (kind of like food is at the moment). Either you will be struggling like crazy to get water since there isn't enough in your biome (desert) and often will just lose because you can't get enough water for your colonists. Or you simply build a well and forget about, never having to interact with the system in any meaningful way again.

I agree that the needs system of colonists could need an overhaul to make it more challenging, but I don't think adding a need for water will solve anything at the moment.

[b0rsuk]

the problem with a colonist water need is that the AI just doesn't handle needs very well.  If my miner is going to wake up, walk across the map, take 1 swing at the rock, come back for food, go back and swing, come back for water, walk, swing, walk, food, walk swing, walk, water, walk, swing, walk, bed - he's not going to get much done.

And thirst is a much more serious need than hunger for humans. A rough estimate is that a human can survive 1 month without food but 3 days without water. So if colonists had thirst bars, they would need to deplete 10 times as fast to resemble reality. Rimworld colonists eat about twice per day.

"Oh, but they would carry canteens with them!"
- what about bedridden colonists and patients ? Have your busy doctor feed them water howManyTimes a day ? Currently incapacitated pawns can't even wipe themselves, how would they even reach for canteens ?
- what about prisoners ? Nutrient paste dispenser for water would be a must. Now imagine an event similar to solar flare, but for water.
- a canteen would need capacity larger than 1 drink. How would AI decide how often to refill it ? And if you make canteen large enough to hold, say, 2 days worth of drink, then drinking would become a meaningless activity. A colonist would stop several times per day to drink, and interesting interactions would only occur during disasters.

[SpaceDorf]

Another reason for water nobody mentioned yet is fire fighting.

Having Water pipes or buckets around would be a huge help.
It would also scale nicely with the biomes because the drier biomes have less fire hazards

[O Negative]

I'll take water puddles over firefoam any day...

[DNK]

Just chiming in to say that a water system is one of the big features I feel the game is still missing.

[stu89pid]

an advanced research tech could be for those things you see at on tatooine in the first star wars movie in the moisture farms, some sort of electrical condenser capable of pulling water out of even low humidity air. Much less efficient than other systems like rain barrels, but could give you an option for desert living with water limitations, similar to hydroponics for biomes where food growing is tough.

[Boston]

 There are actually different terrain levels, we (the player) just can't interact with them. Take a look at lakes, marshes, etc. The game tracks elevation, and fills in terrain accordingly.

[A Friend]

Not really sold on water needs being added in just to satisfy "muh survival realism" and I believe it'll just add extra micro that'll be more tedious than fun.

But I do propose this:
Have a water need. But have it be super easy to manage.
Early on, all you would need to worry about is designing your base with access to water sources like lakes, rivers, and etc. If those are not available. Rain catchers could be made. Pawns would be equipped with canteens which when filled, would last half the day. At the start of each day they'll drink from the water sources and refill their canteens like how meals work now. Very little interactivity with the player, which isn't really such a bad thing.

"But you might as well not add them at all."

Ah, but they're only like that at the start. Later on, certain events and other mechanics will have a great effect on them.

1. Toxic Fallouts can irriadiate water
Which can potentially make your pawns sick unless treated via the cooking table. And if irrigation is included then indoor greenhouses can also be affected. Meaning that bunkering down will not truly protect you from risk. Also it differentiates it a bit from manhunter packs.

2. No Rain + Sieges and Manhunters
With water being added as a need, your building location may sometimes choose between having an easy source of water via lake but be in the open or being inside a defendable mountain and relying solely on rain collectors. Since water would be easy peasy to handle, most would probably still choose the latter. And here's where rain (or lack thereof) comes in. There could be an event where rain would be unavailable for a month or two. Which would force players to expose their pawns to collect water from farther places and generally waste time on travel. Pair this up with manhunter packs or sieges and you have serious risks of pawns dying from dehydration.

Also the lack of rain would be the defining feature for deserts and dry biomes.

3. Corpses and diseases
Corpses being anywhere near water tiles can increase the chances of pawns getting sick when they drink from that body of water. With the amount of corpses increasing the chances, you must ensure the lake your getting water from is free from corpses. Tribal raids would be all the more dangerous. Alternatively, since enemy pawns would also need water, you can dump corpses on far-away water sources and poison any raiders attempting to drink from it. While regular raids won't be as affected, it can become a viable tactic when dealing with long-term dangers like Sieges and Manhunters.

Expanding on the poisoning part. There could be a tribal raid who's goal is to poison your water supply and then leaving. Then coming back a few weeks later and starting a raid when your colony is weakened.

4. Firefighting
Another firefighting method could be added which involves a bucket of water putting out large tiles of fire at a time. Now there's a chance for you to prevent your entire wooden colony from burning into the ground. No problem for colonies with access to large sources of water but for collector-depended colonies. It would be a massive drain on their water supply, at the cost of less fire destruction.

5. Winter and freezing temperatures
Frozen water sources would severely affect drinking time and cause mood debuffs from pawns drinking from it. Rain collectors would be filled with undrinkable snow instead. You'll be given the option to boil snow to get some water. During these times your cooks would have to work double-time to provide enough drinkable water to sustain the colony and prevent mood debuffs.

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Those are just somethings I have at the top of my head. There's potentially more. But TL;DR

Water is a need that's easy to manage.
+ Can be tied in with diseases.
+ Can buff firefighting.
+ Can encourage having bases on the open.
+ No more "I'm surprised this game doesn't have water" posts.

+/- Greater danger of events like Toxic Fallout.

- Seems more work than it's worth.

[makapse]

The only way pipes will be useful and not a headache is by coupling the wires with them. In that way, we can even justify the zzzzzzt events as a leakage in the pipes. Even hygiene should only be result of the environmental cleanliness of the pawn like beauty or space moods right now. No need of adding toilets and showers and such.

[jpinard]

Outside of flooding or crop water usage I think the rest of what's mentioned here is just going to make the game more fidly, not more fun.

[Aatxe360]

the problem with a colonist water need is that the AI just doesn't handle needs very well.  If my miner is going to wake up, walk across the map, take 1 swing at the rock, come back for food, go back and swing, come back for water, walk, swing, walk, food, walk swing, walk, water, walk, swing, walk, bed - he's not going to get much done.

And thirst is a much more serious need than hunger for humans. A rough estimate is that a human can survive 1 month without food but 3 days without water. So if colonists had thirst bars, they would need to deplete 10 times as fast to resemble reality. Rimworld colonists eat about twice per day.

"Oh, but they would carry canteens with them!"
- what about bedridden colonists and patients ? Have your busy doctor feed them water howManyTimes a day ? Currently incapacitated pawns can't even wipe themselves, how would they even reach for canteens ?

Possible solution:  Vitals monitor also acts as an IV with saline solution.

- what about prisoners ? Nutrient paste dispenser for water would be a must. Now imagine an event similar to solar flare, but for water.

Possible solution:   Bucket of potable water.  An event for water is called a drought.

- a canteen would need capacity larger than 1 drink. How would AI decide how often to refill it ? And if you make canteen large enough to hold, say, 2 days worth of drink, then drinking would become a meaningless activity. A colonist would stop several times per day to drink, and interesting interactions would only occur during disasters.

Possible solution:  Just make the canteen carried and have it deplete over time in a pawn's inventory as applicable.  You don't really need the animation and stop action to drink.  People drink on the move all the time.  Just as if they're thirsty, have a movement penalty or something similar.

With alcohol and drugs, they could make a pawn thirstier for using them.

[Boston]

In reality, 99% of all human settlement occurred either on a river, on the coast, or both. Why?

Access to fresh water is critical for any settlement, of any size.

An actual "water mechanic" doesn't have to be that complicated; just add it to the food system. Simple meals take 5 water, Fine meals take 10, Lavish meals take 15. Or, do like the Vegetable Garden Mod does, and add actual goddamn recipes to the game. Different recipes require different ingredients, provide different amounts of meals, and provide various benefits.

If there is a body of fresh water on the map, within a certain radius of your settlement, your pawns automatically collect water as part of the Hauling skill. On the other hand, natural bodies of water can be polluted, by bodies or in general, leading to diseases (kinda like how food poisoning works in-game).

To avoid that, or if your colony lacks a body of water close by, you could build a well using X wood and X stone. This works the same as a natural source, but it can't be polluted.

Done.

[A Friend]

@Boston

Problem with just that is that there's so little effect on gameplay outside of "being slightly more realistic" that you might as well ignore it.

[O Negative]

"Slightly more realistic" is a bit of an insult. Every playthrough, I have to suspend disbelief in the idea that my people need food but not water... In a game where basic survival is a huge component.

Let's just get rid of the food system, since it only adds a bit of realism, right? It's not like your people are in a state of malnutrition enough for it to really matter during raids. Making colder biomes harder to survive in is whatever. It'll help with performance, too, because it'll be one less need to track

/Where's the sarcasm font, anyways?