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Author Topic: Wardens  (Read 6352 times)

Farcrada

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Wardens
« on: October 20, 2013, 12:37:45 PM »

G'day peeps,

So I noticed taht when you put a prisoner on friendly talk and requiting and they have yet to reach the loyalty level to get converted, they somehow do not receive food. the warden just didn't want to feed the poor bastard. They do sometimes, but other times he just leaves them to starve.
Also: Is giving prisoners a mild beating faster than just feeding, friendly talk and then requiting them? Are there any negatives to that?

I hope this helps out a bit.

Greetings,
Farcrada
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Tynan

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Re: Wardens
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2013, 04:22:49 PM »

The beatings will probably get cut because they're kind of pointless.

And it does appear there is some kind of bug causing wardens to not feed prisoners. You can always build a nutrient dispenser in their cell, of course.
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Noxmutagen

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Re: Wardens
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2013, 05:56:23 PM »

The beatings will probably get cut because they're kind of pointless.

And it does appear there is some kind of bug causing wardens to not feed prisoners. You can always build a nutrient dispenser in their cell, of course.

Beatings should be used in forceful recruitment. There should be a break meter for people like Vatgrown clones, people you couldnt talk to who calculate their odds for survival and decide if he is beating me it means he doesnt want me dead just following him. I'd rather be alive than dead.


Or just for the players evil side. Maybe his jails start being known and bandits start being hesitant raiding the player for fear of his torture pits.

please dont cut interesting things boss! >:D
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mumblemumble

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Re: Wardens
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2013, 02:23:19 PM »

The beatings will probably get cut because they're kind of pointless.

And it does appear there is some kind of bug causing wardens to not feed prisoners. You can always build a nutrient dispenser in their cell, of course.
I do hope you don't remove beatings.... Even if they are "pointless" they are fun, and unless they really, really get in the way of something, it shouldn't be taken out.

Besides, assuming you add in psychology more, I can see beatings as "stress relief" for evil characters in the colony. Long day mining and shooting squirrels? Go beat the prisoners, you should feel better.
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GC13

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Re: Wardens
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2013, 02:52:00 PM »

Why would any reasonable developer deliberately leave in something that is useless? All options should have a time when they're reasonable. If its only purpose in life is to be a newbie trap, it has no purpose in life.
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Tynan

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Re: Wardens
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2013, 04:06:44 PM »

Well, there are arguments for it. It's fun to role-play sometimes, even if something isn't necessary to win. It's a bit like: why is there more than one carpet color in the game?

Anyway, I'm not sure I'll cut it; I'll have to see about that when I refactor the fear system.
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salt1219

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Re: Wardens
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2013, 04:57:16 PM »

i think the fear system is a great alternative to the regular system of recruiting it just needs to be fleshed out more.

i think an interesting balance would be that fear recruits at a much quicker rate but over-all increases the risk of mental breaks in everyone.   maybe even have it so if your fear level is high among colonists they panic when idle for too long. (fear of getting imprisoned or beatings?)

fear as a deterrent such as the gibbet cages could cause some new reactions too.  for instance small raid groups of 1-3 when faced with several gibbet cages might cancel a raid.  Larger groups might pause longer before attack and focus on burning down your base rather than face you head on, they might even keep their distance longer. 
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Noxmutagen

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Re: Wardens
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2013, 05:02:05 PM »

i think the fear system is a great alternative to the regular system of recruiting it just needs to be fleshed out more.

i think an interesting balance would be that fear recruits at a much quicker rate but over-all increases the risk of mental breaks in everyone.   maybe even have it so if your fear level is high among colonists they panic when idle for too long. (fear of getting imprisoned or beatings?)

fear as a deterrent such as the gibbet cages could cause some new reactions too.  for instance small raid groups of 1-3 when faced with several gibbet cages might cancel a raid.  Larger groups might pause longer before attack and focus on burning down your base rather than face you head on, they might even keep their distance longer.

very nice. I think we also should see more need for interrogation techniques.

Are all those lonesome travelers passing by really so nice? Or innocent? maybe some be spying on the colony for raiders? Maybe you start getting things sabotaged without you knowing it. You could then administer random beatings to relatively new colonists to find the mole. Please consider these ideas sir.
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nomadseifer

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Re: Wardens
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2013, 11:12:30 PM »

I'm just going to jump in here and say the beatings don't really make sense to me.  How is somewhat 'recruited' through fear.  I could see enslaving someone and using beatings to increase their productivity, but the idea that a person will freely join the colony after a beating, out of fear, doesn't ring true.  And if they're not always under guard or somehow restrained, then they aren't really a slave, they can just run off whenever they want. 

I also personally think that some level of ethics should come into play here.  I mean, I can wrap my head around why slave-trade in some future dystopia would exist and why it may be necessary to employ saves in order to ensure your own survival...  but this:
Quote
Long day mining and shooting squirrels? Go beat the prisoners, you should feel better.
I don't personally find this level of role-playing or simulation necessary.  It has large implications.  If this kind of activity is neutral or positive to the other colonists, then the game is making a clear statement about its (lack of)internal ethics.  Now, if said colonist is treated as a the sociopath that he is afterwards, and this has ramifications for himself and the colony, then I don't see it as a problem.  But that seems like it would be a very very complex interaction. 
 
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Noxmutagen

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Re: Wardens
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2013, 01:49:43 AM »

I'm just going to jump in here and say the beatings don't really make sense to me.  How is somewhat 'recruited' through fear.  I could see enslaving someone and using beatings to increase their productivity, but the idea that a person will freely join the colony after a beating, out of fear, doesn't ring true.  And if they're not always under guard or somehow restrained, then they aren't really a slave, they can just run off whenever they want. 

I also personally think that some level of ethics should come into play here.  I mean, I can wrap my head around why slave-trade in some future dystopia would exist and why it may be necessary to employ saves in order to ensure your own survival...  but this:
Quote
Long day mining and shooting squirrels? Go beat the prisoners, you should feel better.
I don't personally find this level of role-playing or simulation necessary.  It has large implications.  If this kind of activity is neutral or positive to the other colonists, then the game is making a clear statement about its (lack of)internal ethics.  Now, if said colonist is treated as a the sociopath that he is afterwards, and this has ramifications for himself and the colony, then I don't see it as a problem.  But that seems like it would be a very very complex interaction.

Okay, then remove executions, those don't make sense either. Since why would you ever recruit someone trying to shoot your people in the head in the first place?

Also, why would someone join you and your crew and not murder you in your sleep if they were a Raider for x amount of years? Lol.

But yeah, maybe you think it is complex but it may just be a trigger, a type of "person is detestable" negative emotion that is caused by other people who aren't detestable types being around that person tagged with 'bad karma'.

But realize you are on a border world with no escape, I mean should the game lose features because something seems "unnecessary." or should they at least be kept in or added as something that can be turned off?

Well, I see the trend in todays games is to remove anything thats a tad off color yet keep the murder and the fighting as thats any better. hope this is something modders can reactivate hopefully.....
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 01:55:01 AM by Noxmutagen »
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nomadseifer

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Re: Wardens
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2013, 02:06:20 AM »

I'm not the censor police.  I'm just making the point that there is a difference between doing what needs doing to survive and having needless cruelty in the game.  Since this is a game where human interactions and emotional states are a large part of the simulation I think it is a valid point point for discussion. 

And there is a big difference between pitched combat and beating a helpless prisoner.  Its the reason why there's a Geneva Convention.  It is deeply ironic, but also indicative of of some of our core human values.   
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Noxmutagen

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Re: Wardens
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2013, 02:58:10 AM »

I'm not the censor police.  I'm just making the point that there is a difference between doing what needs doing to survive and having needless cruelty in the game.  Since this is a game where human interactions and emotional states are a large part of the simulation I think it is a valid point point for discussion. 

And there is a big difference between pitched combat and beating a helpless prisoner.  Its the reason why there's a Geneva Convention.  It is deeply ironic, but also indicative of of some of our core human values.

So you punch a bad man that kills innocents to make him see things your way, I see this as a hard knocks lesson. No more horrible than a squirrel getting mad and then BLOWING UP and seeing blood stains remain of my colonists. Why aren't the squirrels respecting geneva convention's laws on terror? I mean most of these people that die are simple farmers. Unarmed even.

This logic is great outside of a video game, much like black and white series however it should be taken with a tiny grain of salt. Features that seem "horrible" or lacking in morals are no more different than other features in regards to violence. It's not even graphic violence. The dude just punches the guy instead of seeing pop up bubbles you get "Whack! Whack!" And then the dude joins. or doesnt. Whatever. I dont see how this is any more horrible than "Execute."

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mumblemumble

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Re: Wardens
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2013, 08:33:42 AM »

Quote
Long day mining and shooting squirrels? Go beat the prisoners, you should feel better.
I don't personally find this level of role-playing or simulation necessary.  It has large implications.
If you actually read my post BEYOND this sentence, you would realize this idea IS NOT for role-playing, it was to boost the happiness of colonists whom have a sadistic streak. (An actual gameplay tactic)

This is pretty much the same as using carpets or larger rooms to improve the lives of your colonists, an OPTIONAL way to improve the sanity of colonists, provided they have a dark enough mind to enjoy beating someone. It could be quite useful to let the more dangerous and unstable colonists blow off steam in a "healthy" way, instead of blowing your own colonists away.
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Why to people worry about following their heart? Its lodged in your chest, you won't accidentally leave it behind.

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Its bad because reasons, and if you don't know the reasons, you are horrible. You cannot ask what the reasons are or else you doubt it. But the reasons are irrefutable. Logic.

aerojet029

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Re: Wardens
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2013, 12:13:38 PM »

Beatings do serve a purpose right now! one game my people were having mental break downs and I had more prisoners than i could feed. soooooo i beat the prisoners and the additional boost in fear got me through 3 more battles, until i was more established
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DeltaV

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Re: Wardens
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2013, 12:58:56 PM »

Don't take out beatings! If I want to RP an ebuul colony where a prison transport ship was the thing that was destroyed and all my colonists are cold-blooded killers, I should be allowed to do so :P
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