RimWorld Lore Discussion!

[CiceroThePoet]

I've noticed that people consistently reference the lore, which means people tend to read it for the interest of reading it. It's really well written, and concise. I do feel though, that as a community, we should discuss it a bit more in-depth. Fill in the blanks, so to speak. I should be more specific when I talk about blanks, when I say blanks, I don't mean that there is anything missing from the lore, per-say, as it essentially covers all of it's bases. What I would like to see, however, is a deeper understanding of what exactly is going on, through the communities eyes.

The following are the links to the current lore quick-primer, and the Longsleep-Revival brief, in that order.

1) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pIZyKif0bFbBWten4drrm7kfSSfvBoJPgG9-ywfN8j8/pub
2) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fUO3KKbAbTxMP1lqphnnodY0NPoOVblCUkDw-54MDUc/pub

I had a bit of a moment, and while re-reading the longsleep survival brief, I noticed that the Ordo Historia stated that humanity is smeared across an area of the galaxy about 1,200 lightyears wide. I was curious about this, so naturally I investigated, and did a bit of math. Using a figure that measured the area of the galaxy in meters, I found that the galaxy has an area of about 6.65E60 meters. This is an absolute shitload, and I should mention that I am -not- by -any- means qualified to do this math, but bear with me, I then took the liberty of assuming that the area humanity has settled in is going to be cubic, because I couldn't be arsed into doing the math for the volume in meters of a sphere 1,200 light years wide, that said, I calculated the volume of the area humanity has settled to be roughly 1.63E29 meters in volume. (Likely less, given that I used a cubic format.) This is also a shitload, but not even nearly as large a shitload as the shitload posted above, in fact, in reference to the galaxy, the area that humanity has settled is about 0.000000000000000000000000000002451127819548872% the total area of the galaxy. I didn't put that into scientific notation for the "Wow!" factor, naturally.

That said, the core worlds concept effectively would not/can not exist, as the area being discussed here would be relatively homogeneous in reference to the stars. I would think core worlds would focus mostly of random star clusters in our local area, rather than the actual core of the galaxy. Which might have an impact on other things, such as the estimated amount of time for a civilization to reach transcendence, given a rough time period, my idea is that we might need a different time-frame to work with, given the lore.

I'm not -suggesting- anything, I would just like input from my fellow folks about what they think about the lore, and how can we as a community add depth to the game. (Without any actual programming on Tynan's part.) If we do come up with something amazing, we can naturally move it to suggestions, and perhaps he can handle it from there. All I am aiming to discuss is editing a google document, nothing that would take weeks to achieve.

[milon]

Humans couldn't really live in the true core anyway - that's all black hole territory and you wouldn't have humans anymore.

I always just assumed it was near the core, and that actually calling it the core was just slang.

[AngleWyrm]

Slower-Than-Light travel between stars would require equipment that has a mean time between failure measured in thousands of years, and the energy to continue the maintenance of the journey in complete darkness and utter cold for that same period. It is just as much science fiction as Faster-Than-Light travel.

Interstellar travel requires a fantasy aspect, a willingness to live without some laws of our universe for the sake of story.

[CiceroThePoet]

Humans couldn't really live in the true core anyway - that's all black hole territory and you wouldn't have humans anymore.

I always just assumed it was near the core, and that actually calling it the core was just slang.

I thought the same thing until further research, and a bit of tom-foolery with the RimLore, as it turns out, the only reason that area is dangerous, isn't necessarily because of the black hole, it's because of the super-novae that happen closer to that area, which in turn make it uninhabitable, not because life couldn't live there for awhile, just that the formation of life in that area would be difficult due to the sheer number of cosmic neighbors. Of course, I am talking of the "outer-core" effectively, not the actual core, which is as as you said, uninhabitable.

According to RimLore, humans have an decreased sensitivity to radiation, which would effectively expand our "habitable-zone" a bit, this when paired that that area in question would have an extremely high metallic content in it's stars would mean you could find all kind of valuable elements in that "DANGER-ZONE" which would be highly lucrative, in the right hands.

Sorry to keep droning on, I'm not doing it intentionally I swear, but the "core" we are talking about, COULD perhaps be in reference to one of the arms of our so-precious galaxy? I'm just running on the assumption that the arms themselves would have a higher local star-density, so to speak.

Thank you for the input, Milon.

Slower-Than-Light travel between stars would require equipment that has a mean time between failure measured in thousands of years, and the energy to continue the maintenance of the journey in complete darkness and utter cold for that same period. It is just as much science fiction as Faster-Than-Light travel.

Interstellar travel requires a fantasy aspect, a willingness to live without some laws of our universe for the sake of story.

Now on to AngleWyrm, in RimLore faster than light travel is impossible, but it never says exactly how fast we have gotten. Assuming a ship is travelling at 99.99% the speed of light, and assuming that the ship has that bad-ass "personal shield" that my berserker always seems to wear, thus immunizing it to space-junk which could devastate it. Going up to those speeds effectively makes time slow down to the observer, while in all reality time itself is still passing at the standard rate outside of the craft. I do not know the percentage at what time would dilate, save that it might ease up on those issues a bit, when paired with the other tech we are potentially working with here. (I know I use the term assume repeatedly, but working with what I have, I find it necessary, sorry.)

RimLore says that we cannot into FTL, it does -not- say however that we cannot travel at 99.99% the speed of light, nor does physics. The only 'rule' we have effectively is that we cannot go at the speed of, or faster than, light. Other than that, the RimLore gives us a surprising amount of flexibility on the issue.

Now if we want to contribute to the lore, what type of crazy drive would we have that could pull us up to these speeds? These are the gaps I want to dick around with in filling. I think it would be fun to do with the community.

Naturally we are going to have multiple varieties of the same general thing (convergent technological development, and all that.) but I would think it would be fun.

Thanks again for the input!

[milon]

That's a really fun topic for Google / YouTube / Wikipedia / etc.
Here's one decent hit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_travel#Propulsion

And another:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/02/170201162456.htm

[b0rsuk]

I think Rimworld lore could use another pass. Not because I'm fan of long in-game books and fanfiction, but to make things a little more defined and consistent. Race for the Galaxy is a board game which technically has very little written lore, but when you look at the cards, their names, their function you realize it's all very consistent and well thought out.

[BeastNips]

Now on to AngleWyrm, in RimLore faster than light travel is impossible, but it never says exactly how fast we have gotten. Assuming a ship is travelling at 99.99% the speed of light, and assuming that the ship has that bad-ass "personal shield" that my berserker always seems to wear, thus immunizing it to space-junk which could devastate it. Going up to those speeds effectively makes time slow down to the observer, while in all reality time itself is still passing at the standard rate outside of the craft. I do not know the percentage at what time would dilate, save that it might ease up on those issues a bit, when paired with the other tech we are potentially working with here. (I know I use the term assume repeatedly, but working with what I have, I find it necessary, sorry.)

RimLore says that we cannot into FTL, it does -not- say however that we cannot travel at 99.99% the speed of light, nor does physics. The only 'rule' we have effectively is that we cannot go at the speed of, or faster than, light. Other than that, the RimLore gives us a surprising amount of flexibility on the issue.

Now if we want to contribute to the lore, what type of crazy drive would we have that could pull us up to these speeds? These are the gaps I want to dick around with in filling. I think it would be fun to do with the community.

Naturally we are going to have multiple varieties of the same general thing (convergent technological development, and all that.) but I would think it would be fun.

Thanks again for the input!

It's not so much an issue of power but of propellant. You have to carry some form of 'mass' to chuck behind you in order to push yourself forward. Alistair Reynolds' fiction works contained ships called 'Lighthuggers' which would accelerate at 1g (not really rapid acceleration) and reach 99.99% of C in 1-2 years, without taking special relativity into account. The 'magic' part was his drive which he never explained, which could infinitely accelerate a vessel at 1g; it hints at generating exotic particles (or possibly gravity itself) from a controlled singularity in order to propel the ship.

Without this magic drive, a ship would have to carry its propellant. Project Valkyrie proposes to do just that, by carrying an anti-matter tank at the front and the back; 1 to accelerate, 1 to decelerate. Anti-matter (at least at the moment) would be the only feasible fuel/propellant to use. The issue is that this would reach a tipping point where the mass of the anti-matter tank would grow faster (relatively) than the propulsion gained from it, thus having a finite amount of acceleration that could be achieved. This would probably be nowhere near 99.99% C.

There are a few good suggestions in how to accelerate indefinitely: one being a modified version of a ramscoop/ramjet that would work using a laser station based in the solar system of origin to beam light at a 'lightsail' to accelerate and a solar/magnetic sail to decelerate using the destination star's magnetic field (of course an unbelievable power source and laser in the origin system would be needed). Another method is a 'standard' ramscoop modified to use GUT mono-poles to catalyse proton decay in background hydrogen to give the standard ramscoop, which is unfeasible, high enough performance to make it feasible. Please don't test me on these theories as I'm not an astrophysicist.

I personally don't think hyper-light is possible, but I completely believe traveling at sub-light speeds to distant star system is possible. In theory, if you could accelerate at 1g indefinitely then time would exponentially slow on-board the ship meaning you could travel any distance in a lifetime, although this is only beneficial for the traveler as thousands, millions or billions of years would pass for everyone planet-side.

[Granitecosmos]

The means of propulsion isn't that important anyway. Let's not forget we're talking about a Sci-Fi game. We've been give the distance already, let's work with that.

According to Ordo Historia:

• Interstellar space travel started at 2100 AD.
• The human infested inhabited cosmos spans across 1200 LY (~370 PC).
• The origin point of interstellar travel is (obviously) the Sol system (a.k.a. where we are now).

First of all, this means we're talking about a ~sphere with a ~1200 LY diameter, with our solar system being in or very near the center. This means that the slowest way we can reach this distance is with a spacecraft launched in 2100 AD that travels 3400 years at the speed of ~52900 km/s, roughly 17,6% of the speed of light. For reference, Earth orbits the Sun at the average speed of ~30 km/s and the average speed of Comets in our solar system is ~40-50 km/s. Stellar objects usually need either a close supernova explosion, a black hole's gravity assist or other rare anomalies to reach even 1% of the speed of light.

Second, this distance limit means we're still within the Orion–Cygnus Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy. Therefore the concept of Core and Rim, although obviously not referring to the Galaxy Core or Rim, can still be easily applied. Although we won't reach other Arms in our Galaxy, we do reach the edge of this Arm where star density drops considerably. Therefore Core refers to the central, more star-dense area of the Arm, while Rim refers to the edges of the Arm.
Since our solar system (a.k.a. the start point) is well within the central area of this Arm, and since it is most likely the center of humanity's literal sphere of influence in the cosmos, the Core is mostly the innermost area of human-inhabited space too. Transcendent and Glitter worlds therefore are bound to be more common near our original star system both due to being part of the Core area and due to sufficient time to reach such technological states.
The edge of the sphere consists of two areas where the dense central regions of the local Arm continues, while the rest is the less star-dense area closer to the edge of the Arm. This latter one is the area described as the true Rim.
In fact, this sphere is probably more like an ellipsoid, expanding outwards more rapidly near the star-dense regions due to more stable development and communication.

Transcendent worlds are an interesting subject. I've always pictured them as something along the lines of Herbert W. Franke's The Orchid Cage.

[Yetei]

How could you imagine "transcendence"?



1. Digital consciousness
Reaching a technological point where the people of a planet transfer their consciousness in a giant super-computer?


Immortality (back ups - multiple)
Matter manipulation (Nanites....)
Dyson - Spheres and other cool SciFi

This form would be mighty but not "godlike"




2. Artificial evolution / Acending like in Stargate / Super-Intelligence like in Perry Rhodan
Reaching a physical or mental state where you acend in a energy form


This would represent "godlike" as we know it at the best, but your influence is limited on a planet or a starsystem.
You are not omnipotent.




3. ?

[SpaceDorf]

3.  Mechanoid or Genetic Downfall ( Matrix / SkyNet / Necrons / Zerg / Zombies / Tyranids )


I think this Discussion is important to answer the questions about how Space Traders Work, the Level of Glitterworld Tech out there and why the AK-47 and M16 are still around

[Granitecosmos]

How could you imagine "transcendence"?

Anything that puts the person beyond human limits. Ordo Historia refers to them as "something besides simply human" which is a very broad definition. Some easy examples indeed include the civilization merging into one supercomputer but there are other possibilities.

What does a human strive for? Every human wants to achieve a happy life. Some achieve it through the joy of work, others through fame and power, some by pursuing and understanding the unknown. There are probably as many combinations as there are unique people. Reaching transcendence, IMO, is reaching the ultimate happiness and staying in that state indefinitely.

According to Ordo Historia ships have visited these worlds, although some of them "disappeared" (probably destroyed) while others have been turned back, sometimes altering the crew in some ways. Since thre's no FTL travel in RimWorld we can safely assume that even the oldest of the Transcendent Worlds have reached this state hundreds, possibly even a thousand years ago. Yet these worlds don't expand to other systems for resources, effectively limiting themselves. I don't believe that a planet-sized intelligent supercomputer would make such an error as not ensuring material supply for it's growth unless this is intentional.

Let's not forget what happened to the one true AI program we all know about by now: the Mechanoids. Those ones that attack player colonies are sent from "a rogue mechanite hive". An AI doesn't strive for happiness, an AI will probably just try to extend it's processing power and storage capacity indefinitely. These rogue hives have probably destroyed all humanity on the Glitterworld they originate from or have taken total control. The forces the player encounters are probably just surveyor groups, scanning the world's resource richness and probing possible defences to determine whether it's worth it to invade and strip-mine or not. Transcendents would therefore never make true AI's since those will eventually become rogue. Even if they put heavy restrictions, a true AI can and will alter it's existing algorythms as well as write new ones. It's impossible to deny it from breaking free, it's only a matter of time.

Therefore it's more reasonable to think of Transcendent worlds as places where humans have reached full automation. They don't need to do things, they don't have to take care of their needs, they don't have to think. Imagine a world where every human is kept alive indefinitely, put into eternal bliss for eternity. They reach ultimate happiness, being ignorant of the world around them, while everything is automated and kept working indefinitely by carefully engineered systems and future technology. Let's not forget that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Whether a society agrees to be put into eternal bliss but in return lose part of their humanity is their own decision. Remember, every human ultimately strives for a happy life. However, ultimately every human is selfish. Some more, some less. Even if you give an apple to a starving child, one of the reasons you did it is because it felt good to help someone. Therefore a society will eventually put their own good above others'. The reason why Transcendent worlds break contact is because they're selfish; they don't want to risk losing their happy state so they won't help out nearby worlds. Some do leave "gifts" to visitors, let it be either a deterrent or a sign of peace. This is why some visiting ships are altered in certain ways and why some are never heard of again.

[Marauder]

Why do people assume that "Core Worlds" means galatic core? While some Sci-Fi settings do call them such, most of the time the Core Worlds are the core of whatever Empire/Species is being talked about. I.e their highest developed, highest populated worlds, often times including their homeworld. With the "Rim" not being the galactic Rim but the outer extend of human expansion. I.e the Rim of the space humans have settled so far.


As for "AI" going rogue. First of all it would need to be etablished just how intelligent the AI Hive truly is. Whether it posesses the ability to reproduce units such as Scythers and Centipedes. Pretty much ALL the Robots we've seen are ANCIENT. More often than not they appear to be simple remnants of a conflict long over.

Remember pretty much all the worlds in the game appear to be "fallen" worlds rather than truly be entirely unsettled ones. Basically worlds that were devastated by some kind of conflict long ago. Which means these mechanoid hives aswell as insect hives are "less rogue" than simply "left overs" acting independant because whomever once held control over them simply is not around anymore. With the tribals whom are the most likely to be what is left of said civilizations having regressed so far it is unlikely they could still have any kind of control mechanisms or access codes needed.

For these Mechanoid Hives, we are either trespassers or hostiles being in a place where we really shouldn't be. Possibly still carrying out commands thousands of years old.

[b0rsuk]

For my liking, the 2 documents spend too much time describing things that do not belong on a rimworld.

[Granitecosmos]

For my liking, the 2 documents spend too much time describing things that do not belong on a rimworld.

Isn't that the point of background lore? It adds things beyond the game's concept that helps answering some questions regarding the game itself. Like why are orbital traders rare, why do we have mostly the same tech 3500 years in the future, why are there ordinary animals on an alien planet, why do tribals and mechanoids coexist on the same planet etc.

[b0rsuk]

Check out the long sleep revival brief. About half of it describes what rimworld inhabitants are not. You could get an occasional transanimal colonist in an escape pod, or maybe a faction of optibears. But these are mostly on other planets.

I would be more interested about what techniques are commonly used for terraforming, how do the machines or microbes look like or behave. What sorts of technologies are easy to produce on rimworlds, and what not. Not all technological advances need a high level production chain.

As for mechanoids, you can find some tidbits of info in some colonist backgrounds. For example 'spaceship janitor' mentions that such a person takes care of the ship while others are in cryosleep and 'oils the mechanoids'.