WIP: Cloning Chamber - Ideas needed

Started by Skcuske_Lobuk, April 17, 2017, 04:21:00 PM

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Skcuske_Lobuk

Hi, just started messing around with RW and made a basic colonist cloning prototype. Currently it just replicates a colonist 1:1 with no effort or costs. I want to change that.

1. Is it a good idea to be able to collect DNA samples? E.g. prisoners who refuse to be recruited being cloned? What kind of device would that be? Does it damages the donor?
2. What about the cloning quality? I'd like to have some variation in skills, and maybe gender, but it should be nicely integrated. Any ideas?
3. Should the cloning process be (semi-)automated? How long should cloning take?

As I'm fairly new to xml modding, I might need some help in that part. So what do you think?

dyl000

I think that you should be able to forcibly collect samples, but perhaps it make them unhappy or something, It shouldnt need to damage the donor since it would just be a DNA sample, there should be multiple types of Cloning
Perfect match- same traits, looks, stats, everything, takes the longest
Basic Genetic Copy- similar stats with slight variations in looks (same gender though) and sometimes possibly a change in traits maybe?
and for the final one Unstable Duplicate- high chance of having traits such as volitile, maybe add a new trait in called "Extremely unstable" that gives them a high chance of breaking, but they can be produced much much faster, like a clone a day per machine or something. For cloning time it could be something like
8 days, 5 days, 1 day in order from most stable to least? cloning could take biomass or something to balance things out, anything organic could be broken down and used to fuel it
Of course you dont have to use these, these are just random ideas, this mod could be a ton of fun to mess around with though, especially with a star wars mod, i could create a clone army of jedi, or just recreate the clone wars with the mechnoids......

AngleWyrm


This could serve the same archetypal role as breeding does. The passage of time in the game is much different from human lives, with people appearing/disappearing over the span of weeks instead of decades.

The game currently offers reinforcements/replacements in the form of people falling from the sky, random wanderer joins, and visitors. That is the competition and the baseline. For this mod to be competitive in the current game environment, it should provide an improvement over those sources of recruitment.

What should DNA replicate in a clone?
  • traits would make a good candidate
  • passions could also be considered a genetic predisposition
  • skills probably not

My 5-point rating system: Yay, Kay, Meh, Erm, Bleh

Dragoon

Quote from: dyl000 on April 17, 2017, 06:39:32 PM
I think that you should be able to forcibly collect samples, but perhaps it make them unhappy or something, It shouldnt need to damage the donor since it would just be a DNA sample, there should be multiple types of Cloning
Perfect match- same traits, looks, stats, everything, takes the longest
Basic Genetic Copy- similar stats with slight variations in looks (same gender though) and sometimes possibly a change in traits maybe?
and for the final one Unstable Duplicate- high chance of having traits such as volitile, maybe add a new trait in called "Extremely unstable" that gives them a high chance of breaking, but they can be produced much much faster, like a clone a day per machine or something. For cloning time it could be something like
8 days, 5 days, 1 day in order from most stable to least? cloning could take biomass or something to balance things out, anything organic could be broken down and used to fuel it
Of course you dont have to use these, these are just random ideas, this mod could be a ton of fun to mess around with though, especially with a star wars mod, i could create a clone army of jedi, or just recreate the clone wars with the mechnoids......

+1 I agree with your statement. You could just make it use human flesh(we get bodies from raids right?) if the biomass thing does not pan out. The timing seems good as well.

I would only add on that if you are going to give this to RW or are going to make it rely on it or make it your own. You could make a type of perfect clone that grows up. I believe that other clones even perfect clones should not take years, but that way you could make it like the dad clones himself. (maybe he's alone and believes he's the best or maybe he just never found that special someone lol. Or perhaps clone army ftw.
Quote from: faltonico
I truly can't understand that sense of balancing a LOT of modders have, pouring more resources on something doesn't make it more difficult, but more annoying. It is not engaging, even if i'm swimming in silver at late game ¿why to bother?, why all the effort to get there?.

AngleWyrm

#4


Quote from: Montezuma on April 17, 2017, 04:21:00 PM
1. Is it a good idea to be able to collect DNA samples? E.g. prisoners who refuse to be recruited being cloned? What kind of device would that be? Does it damages the donor?

It could be implemented as an operation; maybe Gather DNA sample for both prisoners and colonists. The result of doing so could be a syringe that contains colonist data to duplicate, such as physical appearance, traits and passions.

Might even have market value based on the various aspects of the DNA.
"Yeah man, looking for some perception? I got one right here."

Could be interesting to create some sort of mix-and-match gene splicer that extracts components, and recombines sets of components.

FrankenFun.
My 5-point rating system: Yay, Kay, Meh, Erm, Bleh

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Done...

Normally a cloning chamber tries to simulate at 100% the stats, traits, capacities and all relationated to the person cloned, the fact is that you can change with genetic development the stats of that cloned person, like make it Workaholic when he was a Monk on his original one, also, it's normal  that a clonation chamber it's not perfect, it must exist a mistake in his clonation process, and give some unfortunately effects, like a mutant leg or a trait of ugly, obviously you need some DNA from the user you want to clone.

But, that person must be completely healed to give the correct production and effect, because if you clone a person with cancer, the clone will have cancer, and removing that to make the clone does not have it, it's very hard, because is a genetic process and very unstable.

You can design some modulator that alters the genetic stats from the user you want to clone, in this case using the DNA, like blood, and provide it with better work speed, a young version of himself, Etc.

I consider that class of technology like Ultra, because clone a colonist with 6 or 7 on every stat and he dies and you lose it inmediately, it's something that makes impossible to kill it, in theory, obviously for the mistakes in the clonation process you can put some colonist with a lvl of 8 or 10 of fabrication, to not make it possible to fail and clone some monster from a bionic optimist soldier.


Skcuske_Lobuk

Yes, I'm aware that cloning can kill the fun because of OP.
I also thought of "mistakes" which might happen during the cloning process. I guess the material quality of the donor should have an impact, e.g. need 20 litres of blood from a donor - harvested over a longer time, else the clone won't be pure. The sample else won't have all the information of the donor, e.g. skills missing which the splicer will have to "fill", with possibly weird outcomes.
Altering stats of a clone or filling in the missing pieces could use medical skill and a lot of time, till an acceptable cloning blueprint is made out of the sample.
Clones needs a backstory implanted during the process, else he's aware of its status (new backstories, good/evil clone or something). Backstories also affect skills & traits, which should give some variation.
Clones could also bear designed flaws, like the Replicants from Blade Runner with a short life span, or the Jem'Hadar from Star Trek which rely on a drug to survive – or both.
I guess the mod will also need an option menu, to switch between standard and easy mode, to have some fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQj2NP25TIo

Concerning a clones age, it would be stupid for an 80 year old to clone himself to the same age, he would go for a younger version without the old age diseases. Therefore, the age of the clone should be selectable. Altering the age or removing diseases (as Source wrote) leads to flawed blueprints.

SpaceDorf

You could use bigger samples than only blood .. that contain more different celltypes .. a whole arm for example.

Maxim 1   : Pillage, then burn
Maxim 37 : There is no overkill. There is only open fire and reload.
Rule 34 of Rimworld :There is a mod for that.
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Done...


It's very good, the situation here is make realist and not OP this mod, also, like Space explains, using bigger samples or used samples it's a good function and it has more chance to clone correctly.

Also, not only humans can be cloned, you can clone animals and entities from other mods, using his samples, and with animal the chance to clone must be a little more fast and more probably to function, the same thing happens with the organs, using a damaged organ or shredded it's possible to clone this one to use it for a pacient terminal, like a lung for a asthma user, obviously cloning organs it's a process more complicated, specially when this organs are damaged, and clone it completely healed it's more complicated, you should add the chance that this organs can suffer a malfunction during the process and put some sub-name to this ones like "Cloned Lung" and when it fails like "Cloned Deformed Lung" having a less percent of functionality, and even a risk of infection on this ones.

medsal15

Then work on genetically modified people. Better than you, but they cost more.

On failure it should create an abomination. A horrible-looking creature that may be friendly/neutral/aggressive. Completely random stats, if possible.

Skcuske_Lobuk

I think a lot is possible. Technically I'm just copying the pawn's stats to a newly generated pawn. Those stats can be altered unintentionally (cloning errors) or intentionally (genetic engineering). Also mixed stats of two pawns are possible.

Cloning organs also looks like a nice alternative to organ harvesting. I think I'll need a research tree for better equipment and a faster cloning process.

AngleWyrm


Quote from: Source on April 18, 2017, 12:49:19 PM
  • a cloning chamber it's not perfect, mistakes must exist in its cloning process
  • a person must be completely healed to give the correct production and effect
These are expenses/liabilities attached to the mod in exchange for using the benefits of the mod.
It is a good plan to place all such costs outside the game code in a defs xml.
  • adjusting costs so that the mod is worth using becomes much easier
  • individual taste of the players can edit where they want more or less cost
Where insistence on imposing cost exists there is also problems of the value of the mod, and the desire of the mod author is derailed to become expressing grief upon the player. Those mods are not played much.
My 5-point rating system: Yay, Kay, Meh, Erm, Bleh

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Done...


Quote from: AngleWyrm on April 19, 2017, 03:02:45 PM

Quote from: Source on April 18, 2017, 12:49:19 PM
  • a cloning chamber it's not perfect, mistakes must exist in its cloning process
  • a person must be completely healed to give the correct production and effect
These are expenses/liabilities attached to the mod in exchange for using the benefits of the mod.
It is a good plan to place all such costs outside the game code in a defs xml.
  • adjusting costs so that the mod is worth using becomes much easier
  • individual taste of the players can edit where they want more or less cost
Where insistence on imposing cost exists there is also problems of the value of the mod, and the desire of the mod author is derailed to become expressing grief upon the player. Those mods are not played much.
It's just a couple of recomendations, it's not the decision of the people, it's the decision of the modder and what he decides correct and necessary to provide a good mod, im just saying those recomendations for the realist process, and for no having such OP things, if he don't wants to make complications it's fine, no problem, but im guessing that he must take the recomendations and "costs" to a general decision in order to have a easy or moderated mod with his benefits at the max of efficiency.

Dragoon

#13
 
Quote from: SpaceDorf on April 19, 2017, 10:03:20 AM
You could use bigger samples than only blood .. that contain more different celltypes .. a whole arm for example.

I would prefer if we did not remove limbs that seems boring and brutish. It's extremely unrealistic and a poor way of balancing out something. Like when then cost such massive amount of resources, and you know that there is no logical reason for it. It is purely to make it "balanced".

There are many ways to get DNA samples heck. If you want realism, making is an artificial womb, with some kinda of growth hormones and or steroids, that makes the fetus grow faster.  If you vat grown (which if I could have both I would) Then they would most likely still be the same, (implanted memories and knowledge ho!). Make vat grown to be a short gestation period with maybe 10-30% chance of bad stuff and Artificial womb have 0% chance but be like a season before the child/adult whatever comes out. I mean; you have to research it, build it supply it and at the same time how power does not crap out on. I'm sure the pros will have no problem blasting through getting everything in short time then complain op. Don't let them make it hard to the point it not being worth it purely because they became so good that extreme poses no challenge to them anymore.

Quote from: AngleWyrm on April 19, 2017, 03:02:45 PM
Where insistence on imposing cost exists there is also problems of the value of the mod, and the desire of the mod author is derailed to become expressing grief upon the player. Those mods are not played much.

This excatly.
Quote from: faltonico
I truly can't understand that sense of balancing a LOT of modders have, pouring more resources on something doesn't make it more difficult, but more annoying. It is not engaging, even if i'm swimming in silver at late game ¿why to bother?, why all the effort to get there?.

SpaceDorf

@Dragoon The bigger sample was a half joking suggestion, not one of balance.

That said. Your balance suggestions sound good.
Especially the artificial Womb and VatGrown mechanics, because I thought myself about how cloning works today.

And in addition to the gene sample there is a source of stem-cells involved.
A Zygote of the soon to be cloned Species.
There is only one source for those so far, and it introduces its own DNA Samples and probability for failure.
Maxim 1   : Pillage, then burn
Maxim 37 : There is no overkill. There is only open fire and reload.
Rule 34 of Rimworld :There is a mod for that.
Avatar Made by Chickenplucker