Infections in a17

Started by Kerantli, May 03, 2017, 06:47:12 AM

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DariusWolfe

Quote from: Ukas on May 05, 2017, 12:37:49 PM
Quote from: Limdood on May 05, 2017, 09:31:46 AM
In A17, you now have to face the worst of both worlds.....

Oh yeah this all sounds so great I can hardly wait! With Randy on intense there can be 4 even 5 raids in two days, which means I will have to make decisions like shall I send seriously sick people from hospital to fight battles. There were no scenarios like these in A16, so I'm expecting a lot of fun.

And caravans! I'm using set up camp mod, so people will definitely die because of infections when camping during caravan trips. Which will make the whole business much more riskier, and exciting. Awesome!

There are two kinds of people who play Rimworld.

Limdood

I wasn't necessarily complaining.  Its just tight on meds early.  If more traders will carry herbal meds, and for cheaper (or regular meds), i can tolerate it.  Growing time on healroot is a pain.

giltirn

I'm sure I saw wild healroot mentioned but I have not seen any. This makes a solo 'with nothing' start very dangerous as one infected scratch means game over, especially with the debuff on self-healing.

DariusWolfe

I had lots of wild healroot on my map, though I was only able to get a handful at a time, due to variances in growth state. It still allowed me to take care of a couple of early, minor infections prior to the big fight that led to the wipe of my colony. I also saw it on my subsequent start. It's possible that it's not indigenous to the biome you started in?

bluntobj

Well, the old fashioned way of dealing with infections was amputation.

Infected pinky?  Say hello to hook hand!

Really makes bionics and prosthetics mods look good.

Kerantli

Well, when I made this thread I was expecting maybe one or two replies of "you're being silly" or a simple yes/no answer.

I'm not complaining about the infections in general (makes it more interesting, I admit), I am however complaining about injuries being infected within hours of each other (example - infection of torso 14h then Infection of foot at 16h) rather than at the same time (which is what I expected in a16 after moving from a15)

I hadn't actually realised the little to no infections in injuries was a bug in a16 so maybe I got a little too comfortable with that ideology and didn't think I'd need to change it in a17 until my best shooter nearly died from a little infection as I hadn't harvested any of the wild healroot that was in that particular biome - a mod I adored, and now thankful it is vanilla

DNK

Quote from: DariusWolfe on May 05, 2017, 01:11:14 PM
There are two kinds of people who play Rimworld.
Definitely.

I personally prefer more challenge like this, but then play the game on Phoebe, so I guess I'm both types?

But I'd rather have a small raid be a big deal and a big risk to deal with, rather than fending off a bagillion space pirates with ease, just so I could bury/cremate 30 corpses every few days.

I feel like the former style of gameplay is what Tynan is looking for too, it fits with his vision of the game, a storytelling game where each individual is important. When you fight off 50 pawns every few days, the stories are repetitive and excessive, and become meaningless Tower Defense.

When a raid is once-a-month at most and a handful of guys, but each one can easily permanently disable or kill a pawn, and each bullet or stab may require a ton of medical management... it's meaningful, each small decision could carry a lot of weight. I greatly prefer that over "I'll just spam turrets and sniper rifles and who cares if we get shot up, it's just a few herbal meds away from being fully cured."

giltirn

Quote from: DariusWolfe on May 05, 2017, 07:01:27 PM
I had lots of wild healroot on my map, though I was only able to get a handful at a time, due to variances in growth state. It still allowed me to take care of a couple of early, minor infections prior to the big fight that led to the wipe of my colony. I also saw it on my subsequent start. It's possible that it's not indigenous to the biome you started in?

Hmm. I started in the temperate forest, I would have thought it would be prevalent.

Tynan

I am still adjusting infections build by build, thanks for the feedback everyone.
Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

cultist

What worries me is that torso infections can't be fixed by amputation. And since the torso is one of the most likely areas to get hit, you are going to be dealing with lots of torso infections. Even in A16 I've occasionally lost pawns to those, because there's nothing you can do except pump them full of medicine and penoxy and hope for the best.

ymc

In the current build, 0.17.1529, it's pretty much 50/50 (science!) that somebody gets infected after a raid. Even my megatherium got infected (don't ask)! The only sure-fire solution so far is bed rest.

I'm on day 14 and my starting meds are seriously depleted, to the point where I have already made decisions about who's going to make it and who's not, but I've been playing around and found that doctor care without meds on infections is enough as long as your patient stays in bed. Even with blood everywhere and dirt floors, the margin is quite forgiving for errors in having somebody too far away to apply care when it comes due.

Oh, there's also self-tend in A17 now, so you can take care of a couple ways. Obviously, this doesn't apply over 85% when your patient is totally incapacitated, but I'd imagine at that point you're watching fairly closely to see if you need to strip them before they die.

This will only get easier as medical beds and more sanitary conditions are created. But most definitely, you can no longer have your doctor bandage somebody and expect them to immediately resume their mining or chopping up raider corpse duties.

giltirn

#26
IMO all diseases in the game should always be possible to survive if caught at the right time and treated with care, even for unlucky situations like no-medecine, self-treated pawns with heart conditions (as an example of something I had to deal with recently). Treat the wound/disease and keep them in bed, fed and in a clean room and they should not die. Otherwise it just becomes an exercise in frustration. Maybe I'm in the minority but I believe that punishment should only be meted out when mistakes are made. A poor RNG roll and bam, I lose my only pawn who will stomach hauling = dead colony. Dead colonies are fine if you learn something in the process, but you learn nothing apart from that RNG sucks in these circumstances.

Edit: While we're at it can we please please get rid of 'incapable of dumb labour". Every pawn I get seems to have this stupid trait. Why not make it more like 'brawler', which has a mood debuff if forced to use ranged weapons. Make it so a snooty pawn gets upset if forced to lug things around - I'm fine with managing moods - but it really irks me when my only hauler is incapacitated and my colony grinds to a halt and everyone starves because my guys are all too stubborn to perform this most basic task.

ReZpawner

I've easily been able to cure 95% of any infections with just herbal medicine and a decent doctor (come to think of it, one of them wasn't even that decent). Do you guys who have problems with this have really really terrible doctors or something? Also, keep your hospital clean. (That means 'clean' as in not just sterile tiles, but also that there isn't dirt\blood\puke\whatever all over the place). Right now it feels like it's just serious enough to warrant building a real hospital to avoid complications. No need to nerf it further.

BlackSmokeDMax

Quote from: giltirn on May 07, 2017, 11:25:28 AM
IMO all diseases in the game should always be possible to survive if caught at the right time and treated with care, even for unlucky situations like no-medecine, self-treated pawns with heart conditions (as an example of something I had to deal with recently). Treat the wound/disease and keep them in bed, fed and in a clean room and they should not die. Otherwise it just becomes an exercise in frustration. Maybe I'm in the minority but I believe that punishment should only be meted out when mistakes are made. A poor RNG roll and bam, I lose my only pawn who will stomach hauling = dead colony. Dead colonies are fine if you learn something in the process, but you learn nothing apart from that RNG sucks in these circumstances.

This is only true if you think this is a game meant to be won. If it's a story generator, then those RNG tragedies are just fine. Of course there does need to be a balance, and that is the line Tynan tries to find I believe.

giltirn

Quote from: ReZpawner on May 07, 2017, 11:29:44 AM
I've easily been able to cure 95% of any infections with just herbal medicine and a decent doctor (come to think of it, one of them wasn't even that decent). Do you guys who have problems with this have really really terrible doctors or something? Also, keep your hospital clean. (That means 'clean' as in not just sterile tiles, but also that there isn't dirt\blood\puke\whatever all over the place). Right now it feels like it's just serious enough to warrant building a real hospital to avoid complications. No need to nerf it further.

Despite wild healroot spawns (which only exist in certain biomes), you quickly go through all medicines unless you have someone with 8 in growing to sow it. If you don't specifically roll for a skilled grower at the beginning you will most likely be spending many months without healroot.