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Author Topic: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields  (Read 83431 times)

dburgdorf

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Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2017, 11:05:13 PM »



Last update: 9/24/2017

This mod is an add-on to "Fertile Fields," which adds concrete to the game. I made it a separate mod, as there are already other mods which add concrete, and I didn't want "Fertile Fields" users to feel stuck with my particular version of it.

Concrete can be made at a stonecutting table, with sand, crushed rocks and cement. Cement is made by "cooking" limestone in a smithy.

Vanilla concrete and paved tile floors are now made with concrete instead of with steel. (Honestly, I have no idea why Tynan added concrete floors to the game without adding concrete from which to make them.)

The terraforming option in "Fertile Fields" which allows conversion of rocky dirt into rough stone now requires concrete in addition to crushed rocks.

And if you're using "Basic Bridges," you'll find that construction of deep water bridges also now requires concrete instead of steel.

Additionally, concrete can be used to make "cinder" blocks. These can be used to make walls and other items that can otherwise be made from stone blocks. Cinder block walls are weaker (and less attractive) than granite walls, but can be built quickly.

The mod also adds "poured concrete walls," which are as strong as standard stone walls, but easier to build in bulk, "steel-reinforced concrete walls" (and matching embrasures), which are nearly as strong as plasteel walls, and "plasteel-reinforced concrete walls," with twice the durability of plasteel walls, for those who want the ultimate security for their pawns living in bunkers.

- Rainbeau Flambe (dburgdorf)


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Compatibility:

This mod requires my "Fertile Fields" mod. It makes no difference which loads first, but without "Fertile Fields," this mod won't work. It should be compatible with most any other mods, except perhaps for other mods which add concrete. But why would you be trying to use two different mods to add concrete? Just pick one or the other!

The basic embrasures added by this mod share a defName with the embrasures added by "Combat Extended." Embrasures in your game will thus be defined by whichever of the two mods loads last. There really isn't much difference between the two. I'd recommend loading "Concrete" after "Combat Extended," though, since my embrasures provide slightly better cover and look nicer. :D

You should be able to add this mod to an existing saved game without trouble, but removing it from a game in progress will likely cause problems.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 03:17:01 PM by dburgdorf »
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onerous1

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Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2017, 03:23:58 AM »

Why not just make concrete out of (pulverized) limestone chunks and heat (in a furnace)?
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dburgdorf

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Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2017, 09:34:37 AM »

Why not just make concrete out of (pulverized) limestone chunks and heat (in a furnace)?

I didn't limit concrete to being made just from limestone (though that would be more realistic) for the same reason I haven't limited dirt to being made only from certain types of rocks: I don't want to require something that might or might not actually be available on a given map.
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Canute

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Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2017, 09:46:57 AM »

Quote
Concrete can be made at a rock mill, with sand, crushed rocks and steel
Let me suggest to remove the steel part. Steel ist just used for the reinforced concrete.

And why you need to use cinder blocks, why not use the concrete self to create stuff (concrete walls instead cinder walls). To compensate the missing step just increate the workamout to create concrete.

Or do you want do it like the hardcore-sk team and made it complex and difficult ? :-)

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dburgdorf

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Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2017, 10:34:49 AM »

Let me suggest to remove the steel part.... And why you need to use cinder blocks, why not use the concrete self to create stuff (concrete walls instead cinder walls).

Removing steel from the basic concrete block recipe probably isn't a bad idea. It just seemed that using nothing but rocks and sand was too simple. But you're right; it doesn't make much sense.
 
As to your second point, maybe I shouldn't use the term "cinder block," per se, as that's something too specific, and probably not the best example of building material made from concrete, anyway. The idea, though, is that you don't "pour" a concrete wall the same way you pour a concrete floor. You construct a wall out of something -- blocks, slabs, whatever -- that's already been made from concrete.

Technically, the paved tile floor should probably be made from concrete tiles rather than directly from concrete, for the same reason. Hell, reinforced concrete walls shouldn't be made from basic concrete blocks and steel, but instead from a completely different, harder-to-make type of concrete block or slab. But I'm trying to strike a balance here between "reality" and playability. Some abstraction is necessary. My goal really *isn't* just to make things complex and difficult. :)
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DariusWolfe

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Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2017, 11:09:10 AM »

I'll admit I brow-raised at "cinder block is stronger than granite".

Cinder block walls would be moderately tough and fast to deploy, but definitely not tougher than granite.

Also, I noticed last night that smoothed granite was actually weaker than raw granite; I was sad, but I think I understand the reasoning.
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Canute

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Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2017, 12:06:55 PM »

As to your second point, maybe I shouldn't use the term "cinder block," per se, as that's something too specific, and probably not the best example of building material made from concrete, anyway. The idea, though, is that you don't "pour" a concrete wall the same way you pour a concrete floor. You construct a wall out of something -- blocks, slabs, whatever -- that's already been made from concrete.
It is possible to add a timed component to concrete building?
For regular walls, you just use blocks (and at real some cement) and boing the wall is finished.
For concrete wall, you build some form first and then you fill up it with the "liquid" concrete (and steel if the are reinforced). After a while you can remove the form and got the finished wall.
For RW term, you use 1-2 wood + 5 concrete to build a "fresh" concrete wall with limited HPs. And after 1 day these wall transform into the real concrete wall.
Now the question could you easly add these aging process ?


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dburgdorf

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Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2017, 12:37:57 PM »

It is possible to add a timed component to concrete building?

That's an interesting idea.  I'd want to get some idea if people would actually like it before implementing it, but my first reaction is, "Yeah, that's kind of a cool concept."

And mechanically, it really wouldn't be any different than what I already do with compost bins.  You use compost and wood to create a bin, which then sits for three days before automagically turning into fertilizer (and perhaps returning some of the wood).
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SpaceDorf

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Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2017, 12:45:13 PM »

I would like that timed element.

But it might get difficult if you think about the concrete floor.
It would cause some confusion why it does not work the same way, but then there would also be the problem of pawns walking over the fresh concrete ..

And finally my favorite gardening option is in the game :
flatten the shit, pave it over and paint it green ..
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onerous1

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Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2017, 03:03:47 PM »

Why not just make concrete cement out of (pulverized) limestone chunks and heat (in a furnace)?

I meant cement... not concrete when I wrote this statement. Just worked the night shift and couldn't sleep. Anyway, my point is that the steel element could be replaced with cement using crushed limestone or marble and heated in the furnace. I know you were concerned about the limiting nature of materials, but sand is also a limited resource (deserts, beaches, etc.) unless Fertile Fields allows you to dig up sand in (almost) any biome. I argue that it would be an opportunity to send out a caravan.
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dburgdorf

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Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2017, 03:29:23 PM »

I meant cement... not concrete when I wrote this statement.

I didn't include cement as a requirement for concrete since, in mod terms, it seemed redundant. Unless I limited the stone type that can be used to make cement -- which I would very much prefer not to do, partly because of the previously-mentioned concerns about availability, and partly because doing so would require that I have distinct "types" of crushed rock and sand, rather than just generic items -- cement would simply end up being made of sand, which is already required for concrete, anyway.

(And on a side note, yes, "Fertile Fields" actually does allow you to create sand by further pulverizing crushed rocks.)

Edit: I suppose I could make cement a trader-only item, and require it for production of concrete, but I'm not sure that that wouldn't just make concrete too difficult to obtain to be worth the bother.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 03:31:20 PM by dburgdorf »
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dburgdorf

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Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2017, 08:37:37 PM »

Once again, it occurs to me that I've missed the obvious.

I can't decide whether or not to link creation of certain resources (concrete, via cement, and possibly dirt or fertilizer as well) to a particular material (limestone) that might or might not be available on a given map.

But... why do I need to decide?

So, yeah, I still need to figure out all the details, and I'm too tired tonight to do much with it, but expect the next updates of "Fertile Fields" and "Concrete" to include some sort of "limestone is important" configuration option. If you don't check it, things will work essentially as they do now. If you do check it, things will be a bit more realistic, and you'll need to make sure you have access (either as a stone type on your map, or through trading) to limestone.
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faltonico

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Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2017, 12:25:51 AM »

I'm using the Reinforced Concrete Wall mod and i find it perfectly balanced. For 5000 hp wall, it uses limestone, gravel (made from stone chunks or blocks) and rebar (from steel) to build the wall on site. You have to make the choice to land on a tile with that stone or buy the blocks from traders. The only bad thing is concrete is not a stuff, so you can't do other things with that. But with just that i find it extremely useful.

You just have to make it more appealing to go for all the effort of finding a steady supply of limestone, i personally wouldn't bother for a 1300 hp wall.
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dburgdorf

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Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
« Reply #58 on: June 15, 2017, 12:27:39 AM »

Updates to Concrete based on initial feedback:

- Added cement, which is made in a smithy from limestone chunks.

- Making concrete no longer requires steel, but instead requires cement.

- Concrete is now made at a stonecutting table instead of at a rock mill. I wanted to make sure that concrete production didn't require electricity, since historically it's been used since ancient times.

- Cinder block walls are now weaker than granite walls, and aren't pretty. But they can be built quickly.

- Reinforced concrete walls are now much stronger than they were originally.

- A new wall type, "poured concrete wall," splits the difference.
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Canute

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Re: [A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields
« Reply #59 on: June 15, 2017, 04:58:59 AM »

dburgdorf,
a little request,
at the Dropbox download link could you change the 0 into a 1. This start the download directly.

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