[A17] Rainbeau's Fertile Fields

[Canute]

Ops, sorry didn't notice the numbers, since i didn't saw any output numbers at the recipe_defs. And i rarely used/build the stonemill at all of my colonies so far.
I just though, for a pawn it is easyer to crush stone blocks into crushed rocks, then chunks. And since they do it all with hands they should have it easyer.
Then you should use 10 stone blocks for 1 crushed rock.
Don't forget to add a good amount of work, people need to have a motivation to use the stonemill ! :-)

[Schwartz]

I think there shouldn't be too many redundant steps. Changing terrain has a chance to produce a stone chunk, changing it back takes a crushed stone chunk. It makes sense.

There are already a lot of recipes scattered over at least 4 workstations: The crafting spot, the forge, the furnace and the FF workstation. Some of these overlap, i.e. you can fire bricks at the smithy and the furnace. Less, not more. Ideally I'd like to see all recipes reduced to crafting spot, furnace and rock mill. Have a powered (rock mill) and an unpowered (crafting spot) job each and remove the duplicates. Furnace does all clay baking. You can make 1 clay + 1 sand out of 1 dirt.. do you really need two other jobs that makes 3 dirt into 4/5 clay respectively? Does it even make sense that way? But that's just my opinion.

[dburgdorf]

I think there shouldn't be too many redundant steps.... There are already a lot of recipes.... Some of these overlap....

There are reasons for the "redundant" recipes. The recipes that turn dirt into only clay, for example, though less efficient in terms of total output than the recipes that turn dirt into both clay and sand, were specifically requested to allow automation of large-scale production. (You can't use the "do until you have X" option with a recipe that outputs multiple items.) You can fire bricks in either a furnace or a forge, as another example, in order to allow bricks to be produced more efficiently once you have electricity. And so forth.

If you want to get rid of some of the recipes and limit the options available in your own game, you're certainly welcome to edit the XML def files in any way you see fit. But I don't anticipate those sorts of changes being reflected in the mod's official releases.

[Schwartz]

Yeah, I wouldn't expect the mod to change. People are stating preferences and feature requests and I'm just on the other side of the fence saying there's more than enough stuff in the mod already. I can't find anything I'd want the mod to do that it can't already do.

[dburgdorf]

OK, I've been busier with other stuff today than I anticipated this morning, but I finally took a look at the "Tiberium Rim" mod... and I think I would be doing a great disservice to that mod if I added a generic "turn any unrecognized terrain into dirt" option to FF.

I can see adding "decrystallized" sand and soil to the list of terrains FF can recognize, or even adding a generic "turn any unrecognized terrain that has a fertility above 0 into dirt" option. But adding an option to just convert any of the "corrupted" terrains back to normal terrains would undermine what seems to be one of the major challenges that that mod is designed to provide the player.

[Madman666]

and I think I would be doing a great disservice to that mod if I added a generic "turn any unrecognized terrain into dirt" option to FF.

Tiberium from that mod (green variety) is capable of corrupting insane amounts of land very quickly if you can't deal with it fast. And usually you don't nearly have the means to do that until very late game, not to mention offered land reclaim option turns it to decrystallyzed version very slowly, needs electricity (like a moisture pump) and doesn't even bring back its fertility to 100%. That very quickly leads to having a poisonous desert for a map on your hands. Considering that you can just up and leave to a new more hospitable place, adding the ability to cleanse the land using some resources you have in my opinion doesn't do any disservice. Tiberium is still pretty damn challenging, as its capable of destroying any items and buildings it can reach and poison any pawn to death in  seconds.

I guess I can see why you wouldn't want to add a tool to convert any tiberium infested land into normal soil, as it makes TirberiumRim's own tools obsolete, but in my opinion there should be at least an option to convert decrystallized soil into a normal one or rocky soil. And maybe even get some crystalls in the process as you dig them up.

[Canute]

Yep, without the ability from VG to get the corrupted land back, i would lost my base for use even at the old A16 version. At A17 when tiberium is even more aggresiv it must be much worser.

But i think to it is a problem from the tiberium mod team. If he wanted that you could purify the land, he maybe gave you that tools in the mod.
Or at last he looked for a way to work together with other mods that solve the problem.
Maybe you should mention that problem at the tiberium mod thread too.

[Vlad0mi3r]

When I convert soil to rich soil it appears as though wild plants will no longer grow on the Rich soil. I don't have a grow zone over the soil or roof or anything I could think of that would stop the growth. Is this the case?

The reason is I was wanting to set up a grazing area with natural plant growth so I didn't have to rely so heavily on growing hay grass but it seams I have burnt many many dead people and bugs for naught.

[Canute]

Since  Rich soil is a vanilia terrain type i don't think this is based on this mod. Does even grass don't grow there anymore ?

Another issue i notice. I use hand me the brick and minions, both offer that other deliver resources to blueprints.
Tilled/plowed soil don't require any resources but i notice pawns and minions deliver "nothing" to that because it is a blueprint.

[Vlad0mi3r]

Since  Rich soil is a vanilia terrain type i don't think this is based on this mod. Does even grass don't grow there anymore ?

Another issue i notice. I use hand me the brick and minions, both offer that other deliver resources to blueprints.
Tilled/plowed soil don't require any resources but i notice pawns and minions deliver "nothing" to that because it is a blueprint.

Yeah nothing will naturally grow there. I was thinking it might be treated as a floor tile but I am no modder.

[dburgdorf]

Tiberium from that mod (green variety) is capable of corrupting insane amounts of land very quickly if you can't deal with it fast....

That would be a balance issue within that mod, which should be taken up with the developers of that mod.

As I said, I will update FF so that it recognizes "decrystallized soil" and "decrystallized sand" and allows you to convert them back to vanilla terrain types. But I will *not* be adding any options that would allow conversion of tiberium into regular terrain types, as that would undo what appears to quite intentionally be a primary challenge of the Tiberium Rim mod. I don't mean to sound rude, but if you don't want to deal with tiberium, I'd suggest you just not use the mod that adds it to the game.

When I convert soil to rich soil it appears as though wild plants will no longer grow on the Rich soil.

The rich soil you place when you convert regular soil is no different from the rich soil that appears on the map by default. It is, quite literally, exactly the same terrain. So either you're just having bad luck, or you've got something else in your mod list which is interfering with plant growth, though what that might be, I've no idea.

Another issue i notice.... Tilled/plowed soil don't require any resources but i notice pawns and minions deliver "nothing" to that because it is a blueprint.

That's related to another issue that others have pointed out, where pawns get XP if they work on a terrain conversion that requires resources, but don't get XP if they work on a terrain conversion that doesn't require them. Both problems have to do with the fact that the game is coded to assume that blueprints always require resources unless they're "instabuild" items like crafting spots. I haven't yet had the time or inclination to dig deep enough to see if there's any "easy" way to work around that coding.

[Madman666]

As I said, I will update FF so that it recognizes "decrystallized soil" and "decrystallized sand" and allows you to convert them back to vanilla terrain types. But I will *not* be adding any options that would allow conversion of tiberium into regular terrain types, as that would undo what appears to quite intentionally be a primary challenge of the Tiberium Rim mod. I don't mean to sound rude, but if you don't want to deal with tiberium, I'd suggest you just not use the mod that adds it to the game.

Thats quite okay, I don't need to be able to replace tiberium itself with normal soil, I just need the tools to reclaim some land to actually grow stuff, not wait forever letting my colonists snack on each other. And you are right, If I didn't want to have tiberium in my run, I wouldn't install that mod in the first place. I quite like the concept of tiberium, but I sure as hell don't like, that you can't eventually restore the land occupied by tiberium to normal, no matter how much time and resources you use. So replacing decrystallized soil works fine for me. Thanks.

[dburgdorf]

Fertile Fields has been updated:

- Added the ability to terraform custom terrains from the "Crashlanding," "Quarry" and "Tiberium Rim" mods.

Wasteland from the "Crashlanding" mod can be terraformed as sand. Reclaimed soil from CuproPanda's "Quarry" mod can be terraformed as if it was gravel. And decrystallized sand and soil from "Tiberium Rim" can be terraformed as vanilla sand and gravel, respectively. (Note, though, that the various tiberium terrains introduced by that mod cannot be altered by anything in "Fertile Fields." To get rid of tiberium, you'll still need to utilize the mechanisms actually provided by "Tiberium Rim.")

- It is now possible to make crushed rocks from stone chunks, and sand from crushed rocks, at a stonecutting table, though doing so is of course much slower than at a rock mill.

[Madman666]

Fertile Fields has been updated:

- Added the ability to terraform custom terrains from the "Crashlanding," "Quarry" and "Tiberium Rim" mods.

Wasteland from the "Crashlanding" mod can be terraformed as sand. Reclaimed soil from CuproPanda's "Quarry" mod can be terraformed as if it was gravel. And decrystallized sand and soil from "Tiberium Rim" can be terraformed as vanilla sand and gravel, respectively. (Note, though, that the various tiberium terrains introduced by that mod cannot be altered by anything in "Fertile Fields." To get rid of tiberium, you'll still need to utilize the mechanisms actually provided by "Tiberium Rim.")

- It is now possible to make crushed rocks from stone chunks, and sand from crushed rocks, at a stonecutting table, though doing so is of course much slower than at a rock mill.

Aaawesome. Quarry mod's terrains as well? I was just about to mention it. Thanks!

Oh, one more thing) I noticed that in RFF basic soil texture is changed to appear a lot darker than in vanilla RW. I am kinda interested why did you decide to change it))

[Aysling]

Is there a way to remove rich soil?  I'm trying to build a moat, but there's some rich soil in the way, and I can't find an option to remove it.