Fraction relation going down when a vistor is hurt is unfair towards the player.

[doctercorgi]

I had a caravan arrive and was sitting outside the bunker into my base when some raccoons went man hunter. I though they would take cover behind the turrets and would be safe from the raccoons. while they where safe from the animals, they where not safe from themselves however and what followed was a few minutes of absolute stupidity on my door step. when the raccoons entered their range they ran in front of the turrets and where shot by them. One had grenades, and was throwing them at the raccoons meleeing his frens, and they where exploded by those. Another one had a incendiary launcher, which he was firing at the raccoons and setting my crops on fire, they where also burned by that. There was also a little bit of friendly fire just because. After it was over I checked my relationship with that fraction and it was under 10, down from 48. Why should I be punished for their gross incompetence and idiocy?

[O Negative]

If they're stupid enough to throw grenades at their friends, they're stupid enough to blame you for it

[OFWG]

If they're stupid enough to throw grenades at their friends, they're stupid enough to blame you for it

That is a fantastic answer.

FPNI

[BetaSpectre]

Honestly instant tracking is also kind of dumb, like if you shoot to kill all of them, and manage to do so you get blamed despite raiders etc being possible issues.

But this is Rimworld, and alot of features are for balance. Embrasures, and door locks can lead to super kill boxes.

[SpaceDorf]

Yeah .. the most stupid thing that happened to me was visitors trying to help me.

I got a mountain range that cut the map in two halves. Except for a three tile wide gap.
I placed two wooden walls and a wooden door there.
Few days later I a horde of maneating small animals arrived .. kept on their side of the door, I kept on mine.

Then I got the message "Some guys from the what-so-ever Tribe arrived to help you out" .. first the hung out at my base and I hoped the crisis was averted. Then they opened the door, got themselves killed to the last man and left the door open ..

With friends like these you don't need enemies

[Limdood]

at least when you get the "friendlies" notification, the game doesn't penalize you for deaths, but i get your point about the actions being the real punishment.

Its a tough line to toe though...on the one hand, losing faction standing because the idiot wandered into your geothermal room and burned up is frustrating.  On the other hand being able to cleverly kill half of any visiting group or caravan using collapsing roofs, contained infestations, a suddenly burning room, or a well placed pet boomalope set to "slaughter" (i just thought of that last one on the spot!) with no penalty is cheesy and unintended.  Is the game supposed to somehow differentiate whether the heatstroke death was caused by a geothermal vent, manhunter boomrats, or a nearby colonist-thrown molotov into a suspiciously-full-of-fuel room?

IMO, strict penalties for dead visitors should still apply, but give the player better control over where they stay.  I'm sure features of the hospitality mod will EVENTUALLY make it into the base game at some point, and those would help a lot...caravan spots (thats friendly trade caravans, not player-controlled caravan packing spots), visitor rooms, guest beds, and visitor congregation zones would all serve to help the player actually be the good hosts you'd expect the colony to be (knowing they'd get blamed for deaths).

This wouldn't solve the occasional social fight, heart attack, or drug overdose death, which DO happen (with rather disturbing regularity...) - but they happen far, far less often than NPC AI idiocy or wanton wandering into danger

[SpaceDorf]

Yes it would be enough to assign visitor zones and a bit of communication.

Just a bit of : DON'T GO IN THERE !  and  a GO AWAY ! I DON`T NEED YOUR HELP ! - Option
Even at the cost of 20-30 Faction Points it would still be cheaper than 10 Tribals getting themselves and half of my own killed by stupidity.

[mumblemumble]

meh : no way will ever be perfect, to prevent abuses, but also prevent players getting screwed from specific scenarios. For instance, how can you keep a thrombo being used as caravan demolition equipment?

I think this current setup is better, even if it can have problem : besides, relationships between groups is messy, and this reflects that.

[Aerial]

at least when you get the "friendlies" notification, the game doesn't penalize you for deaths, but i get your point about the actions being the real punishment.

Its a tough line to toe though...on the one hand, losing faction standing because the idiot wandered into your geothermal room and burned up is frustrating.  On the other hand being able to cleverly kill half of any visiting group or caravan using collapsing roofs, contained infestations, a suddenly burning room, or a well placed pet boomalope set to "slaughter" (i just thought of that last one on the spot!) with no penalty is cheesy and unintended.  Is the game supposed to somehow differentiate whether the heatstroke death was caused by a geothermal vent, manhunter boomrats, or a nearby colonist-thrown molotov into a suspiciously-full-of-fuel room?

IMO, strict penalties for dead visitors should still apply, but give the player better control over where they stay.  I'm sure features of the hospitality mod will EVENTUALLY make it into the base game at some point, and those would help a lot...caravan spots (thats friendly trade caravans, not player-controlled caravan packing spots), visitor rooms, guest beds, and visitor congregation zones would all serve to help the player actually be the good hosts you'd expect the colony to be (knowing they'd get blamed for deaths).

This wouldn't solve the occasional social fight, heart attack, or drug overdose death, which DO happen (with rather disturbing regularity...) - but they happen far, far less often than NPC AI idiocy or wanton wandering into danger

This.  Give us some kind of control or influence over the visitors/caravans so we can actually DO something to prevent the regular stupidity and then keep or even increase the penalties for deaths/loss of equipment.  If we could designate an area to restrict a caravan or visitor to while they were at the colony, then it would be totally appropriate to receive a steep penalty related to visitor deaths or for the caravan/visitor losing any equipment and not receiving silver in return for it.

[TheMeInTeam]

The way it stands isn't good at all right now.  Casual players will get randomly penalized for stuff they didn't do and couldn't control.

Players who have...intricate experience with the setup can still engineer bad things happening to caravans and then "rescue" them for spoils and better relations combined.  It's understandable in an alpha but you definitely wouldn't want to stay like this IMO :p.