[1.0] Combat Extended - 1.8.2 CE Melee released (17.11.2019)

Started by NoImageAvailable, June 09, 2017, 04:13:13 PM

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Andy_Dandy

I'd be extremely happy if it was possible to download a mod just with everything related to ammo (without the modified combat mechanics etc). Is that a possibility now or in the future?

Sam Gray

Quote from: Andy_Dandy on August 16, 2017, 05:29:23 AM
I'd be extremely happy if it was possible to download a mod just with everything related to ammo (without the modified combat mechanics etc). Is that a possibility now or in the future?

Yeah, i would be really interested in a mod which only introduced ammo and load-outs without changes in combat mechanics because of many incompatibilities with other mods.

NoImageAvailable

Quote from: Lupin III on August 15, 2017, 11:59:24 AM
Quote from: rambo on August 15, 2017, 09:30:18 AM
You can look at the description of the gun to know what it it
If you read my comment, that's what I have to do and is exactly the annoying part. If a pistol would just be called "pistol" instead of "M1911" I would not have to do that.

Look at Rimfire to see the problem with that approach. You end up with an armory containing "pistol", "modern pistol", "rimfire pistol" and similar non-descriptors. And what do you do if you have say, an AK-47 and AK-74? "Old Soviet assault rifle" and "Modern Soviet assault rifle"?

With real names at least weapon enthusiasts can tell weapons at a glance and I don't need to waste time on figuring out generic names, while non-enthusiasts will be equally confused by generic and non-generic names.
"The power of friendship destroyed the jellyfish."

Seven

"AK-47" and "AK-74" are even less descriptive. With a category and tier for the name, I can at least get a clue about their role and relative power.

KLk

The balls trespasing the walls is a normal thing in the real world guys, caliber and so on :D
And WTF http://imgur.com/a/5nBeq

Lupin III

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on August 16, 2017, 10:46:15 AM
Look at Rimfire to see the problem with that approach. You end up with an armory containing "pistol", "modern pistol", "rimfire pistol" and similar non-descriptors. And what do you do if you have say, an AK-47 and AK-74? "Old Soviet assault rifle" and "Modern Soviet assault rifle"?

You gave an excellent example of how it would be much easier to discern different weapons. With that description at least I know that something is a pistol or assault rifle and which one is most likely better (because "newer"). Why should anyone be confused by that? But if I want to assemble a pistol for someone and I see a list like that "SVD, PTRS-41, M24, Tac-50, Degtyarev DP, M60, RPD, PKM, AK-12, Tec DC-9, KRISS Vector, Mossberg 500, Saiga 12K, USAS-12, M1911, P7, Taurus Judge, SKS" my only way is to get into the description of every single one of them to find out what of them is a pistol in the first place.

[feature request] On a slightly different but related topic:
It would be nice to be able to select "any pistol" or "any weapon of kind x" for a loadout, or generally alternatives in a loadout ("get that SMG, if available, otherwise take that pistol"). The differences between different weapons of a kind are small enough that I don't care about them until later in game when I can afford to build a certain weapon for the whole squad.

NoImageAvailable

Quote from: Lupin III on August 17, 2017, 11:28:11 AM
With that description at least I know that something is a pistol or assault rifle and which one is most likely better (because "newer").

That's a fallacy. Using the AK example the 74 would be lighter, less bulky with more range and firing 5.45mm vs the 47's 7.62mm. If you want to go on a caravan the 74 is clearly the better choice as it allows carrying more ammo/trade goods, but if you're defending a jungle mountain base you don't care about ammo capacity and engagements will happen mostly at close range, making the 47 the better choice.

Someone familiar with the gun would be able to see the name AK-12 and immediately know this is an assault rifle firing 5.45mm with a high-capacity 60-round magazine but "Russian assault rifle" could be anything, so they'd have to check the stats manually (same as people who don't know the AK-12 because they wouldn't be able to infer magazine capacity from its Russian-ness either).
"The power of friendship destroyed the jellyfish."

Drusek


KLk


Seven

Someone familiar with the AK-12 might also be aware that it's compatible with magazines with capacities of 30, 60 and 96 rounds and have no idea which one was picked for this mod. They might also not be familiar with every other weapon on the list, or for that matter, know the specifics about all of them even if they were. Using only weapon names as a descriptor ensures that only gun nuts stand a chance of deciphering what the weapons actually are, and even they might have trouble doing so unless the mod is fully accurate (which it's not, since some features like reliability is to my knowledge at least not implemented at all, not to mention different weapon configurations available).

From what I've seen, there's little this mod offers that couldn't be aggregated down to simple things like "sniper rifle", "assault rifle", "battle rifle" etc., possibly with light/heavy appended to give even more info, to give an idea of what to expect from a weapon. Sure, you might still need to check the details to pick which weapon you want, but you could at least narrow it down to just a few different ones if you knew you needed, for example, a long-range, high-damage automatic (probably a battle rifle in that case). It's not perfect, but it's far more accessible.

Hungry Colonist

Or you could just get used to the weapons real life names. Jesus Christ people, it's not that hard. It's not like the mod has 200 weapons anyway. You came here to download a mod called Combat ->Extended<- and that's what you're getting. I think the autor should focus more on improving the loadout system and fixing issues, rather then spend his time bothering about weapon names that AFAIK are accurate. Their names represent what they are in the game models. It's not like that is rocket science anyway.

Would be great to have something like:
"m24 (sniper rifle)"
"m240b (machine gun)"
Instead of just their names on the machining table recipes, to help you know what kind of weapon you are making. But having them named:
x-machine gun
x-heavy machine gun
x-sniper
x-anti tank sniper
x-pistol
x-oh yeah another pistol
x-semi auto pistol?
Wouldn't help in any way. As you have absolutely no fucking clue what the heck the weapon is.
And as the mod adds new weapons it's gonna become even more ridiculous. That's why people don't name guns like: pistol, auto pistol, pistol 1.2, pistol 1.2 scope edition, etc. It get's even more confusing.

Element4ry

I can't see the problem with the proper gun description. Just learn what is what and problem solves itself. I found this mod great so far and I was pleased to see original guns names. After a while I showed mod to my girlfriend, and even she knowing only which end of a gun is dangerous didn't had issues with that. With proper gun names you can also google that and actually learn stuff about real guns that way. I'd call it win-win situation.
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Hungry Colonist

Quote from: Element4ry on August 17, 2017, 05:44:15 PM
I can't see the problem with the proper gun description. Just learn what is what and problem solves itself. I found this mod great so far and I was pleased to see original guns names. After a while I showed mod to my girlfriend, and even she knowing only which end of a gun is dangerous didn't had issues with that. With proper gun names you can also google that and actually learn stuff about real guns that way. I'd call it win-win situation.
Absolutely.

Seven

You can also get used to having descriptions rather than names. You could also index the weapons by a unique number and have no indication whatsoever what they are, because you can just "get used to it" too. If you're designing an interface based on what obstacles people can get around, you're doing it the wrong way.

Drusek

I think there is a minor bug - every turret (auto or manual) no matter how you configure warmups and cooldowns in xml files has exactly 1s of cooldown or warmup ("Can fire in: 1s")