Forming a Caravan needs fixing

[DariusWolfe]

When your opinion amounts to "git gud noob", then that's an outstanding idea.

[Gohihioh]

I also really enjoy watching caravan forming process.
Although if I have to choose between how does it look and how bugged it is as for now, I would prefer for it to instant.

I would suggest that caraving shouldn't be a process that can't be change while in progress. Also I think that it would be better if caravan forming was hauling job - meaning that animals are packed only by haulers(both animals who haul and pawns), while pawns who are not haulers but are included in caravan take items by themselvs.
And I would add priority - first haulers pack animals, when animals are packed, pawns who will be part of caravan will go take their items(if they take everythiang they need they will carry on to their dailt duties). When everyone has everything then were supposed to take, they group and will be ready to leave map(when they group there will be a new caravan tab, games will notify us if anything was change - for example pawn died and won't be part of caravan, or some items were mising and were not added - game will ask if we want to change or add any items - if we do, process starts from begining but without unpacking items we already hauled - when they finish process - they will group and game will ask us again what has change, what we are have taken and if we want to leave now.
Before all animals are packed all pawns will act normally and carry their daily duties. Same when they take items they will carry in caravan, when they finish gathering all they will just return to their normal job until rest caravan pawns finish gathering items.

[DariusWolfe]

I would suggest that caraving shouldn't be a process that can't be change while in progress.

This would be an excellent change; It's not uncommon for me to cancel a caravan then immediately reform because I forgot to grab something, or because while the loading was going on, something else I wanted to sell was produced.

And I would add priority - first haulers pack animals, when animals are packed, pawns who will be part of caravan will go take their items(if they take everythiang they need they will carry on to their dailt duties).

I think this is already the case? I've always noticed they pack the animals first, then go get items for themselves to carry last.

When everyone has everything then were supposed to take, they group and will be ready to leave map(when they group there will be a new caravan tab, games will notify us if anything was change - for example pawn died and won't be part of caravan, or some items were mising and were not added - game will ask if we want to change or add any items - if we do, process starts from begining but without unpacking items we already hauled - when they finish process - they will group and game will ask us again what has change, what we are have taken and if we want to leave now.

YES. This would be the best change. Load everything up, then wait to leave until told. In the mean-time, they'll go about their regular day, eating, joy activities, sleeping; While this could be exploited somewhat, I think the QoL changes this would make would outweigh any exploityness.*


* The only real exploits I can think of are:
1. using the caravan to move objects on the map, but this is already possible, merely annoying; Plus, why would this even be considered a bad thing? To limit exploityness, maybe give it a 10-12 hour time limit before the caravan auto-cancels.
2. Carrying items useful for combat; I've seen mentions of pawns being able to basically switch from melee to ranged while on caravan; But given that I feel that the Sidearms mod should be integrated into Vanilla, I don't know that I really consider this much of an exploit; Maybe give a movement/coordination penalty if carrying more than a few items.

[Gohihioh]

Just add carry weight for inventory and encumber. When your pawns carry above certain weight they get debuff(movement speed at least). That way you can avoid many exploits and while caravan pawns would still be able to perform normal day task they would do it with lower efficency - so you would never want to wait too long with departue.

[Toast]

Just add carry weight for inventory and encumber. When your pawns carry above certain weight they get debuff(movement speed at least). That way you can avoid many exploits and while caravan pawns would still be able to perform normal day task they would do it with lower efficency - so you would never want to wait too long with departue.

There's already a carry weight limit for each pawn... but the caravan forming process is so hectic right now that sometimes two pawns will both simultaneously grab a big stack of bricks or whatever to put on the same alpaca and accidentally weigh the poor thing down with twice its carry capacity because they didn't check to see how much it would be carrying when the other guy's load was delivered. Right now carrying too much weight doesn't cause any problems, from what I can see, but if there were weight penalties then the loading process would have to be conducted more intelligently to avoid giving said penalties to the player through an AI derp, and that would probably slow it down, though not being a programmer I couldn't say by how much. So although it makes some sense, the idea gives me pause. Another reason why I favor caravan insta-formation, I guess.

[Aerial]

If there was a caravan inventory stockpile type whose allowed contents were defined the same way the caravan loading screen is now (i.e. you select how many of what items to take out of the spreadsheet-like list of everything the colony has), then pawns could collect everything for the caravan via their normal routine and plop it down in the "loading area".  That way they could stop to sleep, eat and do joy activities, as well as allow the animals to continue grazing/whatever while they're not needed. 

Then, once everything was gathered you could click a menu item to insta-form the caravan and leave from that spot. 

The loading stockpile would probably have to be defined as one per caravan, so you could have a Caravan 1 stockpile and a Caravan 2 stockpile going at the same time.

[DariusWolfe]

If there was a caravan inventory stockpile type whose allowed contents were defined the same way the caravan loading screen is now (i.e. you select how many of what items to take out of the spreadsheet-like list of everything the colony has), then pawns could collect everything for the caravan via their normal routine and plop it down in the "loading area".  That way they could stop to sleep, eat and do joy activities, as well as allow the animals to continue grazing/whatever while they're not needed. 

Then, once everything was gathered you could click a menu item to insta-form the caravan and leave from that spot. 

The loading stockpile would probably have to be defined as one per caravan, so you could have a Caravan 1 stockpile and a Caravan 2 stockpile going at the same time.

This is actually brilliant. Best of both worlds.

[Toast]

If there was a caravan inventory stockpile type whose allowed contents were defined the same way the caravan loading screen is now (i.e. you select how many of what items to take out of the spreadsheet-like list of everything the colony has), then pawns could collect everything for the caravan via their normal routine and plop it down in the "loading area".  That way they could stop to sleep, eat and do joy activities, as well as allow the animals to continue grazing/whatever while they're not needed. 

Then, once everything was gathered you could click a menu item to insta-form the caravan and leave from that spot. 

The loading stockpile would probably have to be defined as one per caravan, so you could have a Caravan 1 stockpile and a Caravan 2 stockpile going at the same time.

Seems like a fine solution to me.

[Limdood]

one reason caravan creation is not instant, or significantly faster is its potential to allow a cheesy escape from a colony-ending raid.

the ability to grab EVERY item instantly in a caravan (it would be immobile, but who cares) that automatically appears in an adjacent hex would literally mean automatic "escape" button you could hit at any time.

I'm NOT trying to defend the starvation or extremely long loading time of a 1-2 pawn, several animal caravan, but merely pointing out the pitfalls in some of the proposed "solutions."  The caravan stockpile would be pretty similar....those stockpiles could be the default that you use (stockpiles serve no purpose in the game other than to continually order colonists to haul items to them) for everything, and if a game-ending raid showed, then *poof* caravan is formed and running before the raid ever gets 2 steps onto the map.

[BetaSpectre]

You can still cheese raids by making a caravan. Even without any supplies it's safe once you leave.
AND IRL PEOPLE FROM BURNING VILLAGES BECAME REFUGEES.

So a running away mechanic makes sense, but it'd be nice if the raiders could claim your base.

[AngleWyrm]

Win or lose on the field of the topic, and the reputation of a worthy combatant remains. Ad Hominem is self-destructive because it casts doubt on the position offered in the argument by altering the focus to the more general discussion of source rather than the more specific discussion of content.

[Toast]

one reason caravan creation is not instant, or significantly faster is its potential to allow a cheesy escape from a colony-ending raid.

the ability to grab EVERY item instantly in a caravan (it would be immobile, but who cares) that automatically appears in an adjacent hex would literally mean automatic "escape" button you could hit at any time.

I can't speak for other people but when I say "auto-forming" I don't mean "teleports magically to the next hex." I still expect the people and animals in the caravan to physically walk off the map in the proper direction. I mean "skip all the stupid running around until everyone is starving and exhausted and about to mental break" packing stage that comes before it.

Also, you can already form a caravan to escape an especially dangerous raid, and I'm fine with that? You either have to abandon your colony site and become refugees, which would seem to be enough "punishment" for that choice, or if you wish to have a chance of retaining all the work and pawn-hours you put into whatever infrastructure you built there, you have to leave some pawns behind who will be at severe risk of death. Either way you will lose something.

[Toragor]

I whole heartedly support the suggestions of OP, also this post could use a bump. I just had the situation of an overwhelming raid, while most of my colonists were on a world map mission. I decided to use my remaining colonists to save the most valuable items, the prisoners and animals and just flee my base. IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE. My 5 colonists were wasting all the precious time waiting for the god damn last chicken to arrive at the freaking gathering spot before they started to continue gathering the items and resources. When they started, the enemy was already over the walls. And when the first animal got shot the caravan assembling got canceled, thanks for that .... Now I don't want this to be instant, but they easily could have finished the assembly in time if they wouldn't need to wait for every damn animal to arrive. Just let them touch the animals, then go straight for picking up prisoners and resources. I am forced to save only 2 animals now to restart the population later In order to be able to flee the map.

[HeadWar]

One thing that should significantly speed up most caravan forming, while still retaining "realism", would be if instead of the pawns running back and forth between the caravan spot and wherever the next item to be loaded happens to be, they'd just bring the pack animals with them, and load them immediately when they pick the item up from the ground.

Perhaps this could even be done with a mod?

[Vlad0mi3r]

One thing that should significantly speed up most caravan forming, while still retaining "realism", would be if instead of the pawns running back and forth between the caravan spot and wherever the next item to be loaded happens to be, they'd just bring the pack animals with them, and load them immediately when they pick the item up from the ground.

Perhaps this could even be done with a mod?

This is probably the best suggestion I have seen in regards to any improvement on forming caravans. It is logical and would make the process quicker. +1 from me.