Ludeon Forums

Ludeon Forums

  • August 18, 2019, 01:45:06 PM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 11

Author Topic: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V3.2!  (Read 34760 times)

MercuryDoll

  • Drifter
  • **
  • Posts: 22
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!)
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2017, 08:26:20 AM »

However, the new version will absolutely break games started with the old version. I recommend using the old version until players finish their current game.

Bummer, is there a way to "hotfix" 1.0's issue with visitors going berzerk because they're armed pacifists though? it feels close to gamebreaking, at least it poses a rather big balance issue.
Logged

Rimrue

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2017, 10:21:32 AM »

That is a simple XML fix. I can upload the ThoughtDef file to Dropbox and you can copy it to the ThoughtDefs folder of PaC! That will fix the problem without breaking your game. :)

MercuryDoll

  • Drifter
  • **
  • Posts: 22
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2017, 10:44:21 AM »

Yes please!
Also a suggestion for the next update:

The negative moodlet for people who are assigned for the work they dont like should probably be reduced (drastically).
To offset this and make it more logically, they should get a stackable negative moodlet whenever they actually DO the work they dont like, which can amount to what is currently the moodlet for assigned disliked work. (This would probably have fixed the issue with pacifists berzerking because they got a gun too.)
You could also reinstate some hard traits like doctoring or firefighting disabled, because it would make sense for them to run away in panic from that.
I also noticed negative traits having become a lot more common with pawns gathering up to four negative traits not being a rare sight in case of raiders.
Logged

Rimrue

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2017, 02:15:51 PM »

I'll upload the XML file when I get to my computer. :)

Thanks for the feedback. :)

We are working on making the negative thoughts stackable.

But I won't be reinstating any disabled work tags, sorry. Lol

As for the negative traits, this mod simply removes the incapabilities in the character backstories and replaces them with corresponding traits. It doesn't increase the chances of getting negative traits. The issue is with the vanilla game itself having too many backstories with incapabilities to begin with. There's not much I can do to balance that, I'm afraid, as tbey are hard coded into the backstories. Even creating a bunch of other traits to try to offset the bad traits (which I'm hesitant to do, as that would make the vanilla traits even less likely to generate) wouldn't help. However, Rainbeau's Editable Backstories tweaks the backstories so you have less annoying pawns generating and creates a better balance in the game. I recommend using it along with Pawns Are Capable!

Hope that helps!

dburgdorf

  • Planetologist
  • ****
  • Posts: 1380
  • The dorfiest of dorf modders.
    • View Profile
    • My Facebook page. *Shrug* It's the only Web site I have these days.
Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2017, 02:40:05 PM »

As for the negative traits, this mod simply removes the incapabilities in the character backstories and replaces them with corresponding traits. It doesn't increase the chances of getting negative traits.

Well, technically, that's not quite true. Granted, it's partly a matter of perception -- seeing a list of negative traits where before you only saw some "incapable of" entries does make it look as if negative traits are more common -- but it's not entirely perception. As it stands now, the new traits, most of which are negative, *can* be randomly assigned to pawns without the incapabilities which they replace. So the mod does effectively increase the odds of pawns having negative traits, at least by a small amount.

I wouldn't recommend completely zeroing out the commonality of the new traits, but they probably should be lowered quite a bit, to make them very rare on pawns that don't have a "reason" to have them.

I should probably also look at the code that assigns traits, to make sure that the fact that pawns have several forced traits doesn't make assignment of random (hopefully beneficial) traits less likely. That doesn't seem to be happening, given how many pawns now have four, five or even six traits, but it wouldn't hurt to be sure.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 02:42:46 PM by dburgdorf »
Logged
- Rainbeau Flambe (aka Darryl Burgdorf) -
Old. Short. Grumpy. Bearded. "Yeah, I'm a dorf."



Buy me a Dr Pepper?

Rimrue

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2017, 02:51:34 PM »

Yes, true, there is a small chance they will show up randomly. I've set the commonality of the negative traits at 0.1 and 0.2, whereas the vanilla traits are usually 0.5. But I can reduce them all to 0.1 or even 0.05 and see if that makes a difference.

wwWraith

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
  • ...
    • View Profile
Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2017, 04:00:25 PM »

If this 0.05 vs 0.5 means that new negative traits should appear approximately once per 10 vanilla traits, I think it still would be too often. I'd suggest its probability as once per 20 pawns so like 1:50 in traits.

But I really like the whole idea, it makes the player to know his/her pawns better, not just looking onto numbers :)
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 04:09:46 PM by wwWraith »
Logged
Think about it. Think around it. Probably you'll get some new good idea even if it would be completely different from my words.

My mods

Please don't copy Core bases in your mods

Rimrue

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2017, 04:35:49 PM »

I admit I suck at math, but wouldn't 0.1 be 1 in 10 and 0.05 be 1 in 20?

Anyway, I'm currently tweaking the commonality numbers. Again, I had already set them quite low compared to the vanilla traits, and they only show up randomly some of the time anyway, as many of the backstories have incapabilities hard-coded into them and thus have no space for random traits. (Priscilla the Pirate, for instance, always seems to show up with the same negative traits.)

Which is why I was suggesting to use PaC in conjunction as REB, because REB removes a lot of that silliness. I use them together myself and find that pawns are far less likely to roll negative traits than with the vanilla game or using REB Lite.

Anyway, will continue tweaking and see if I notice any difference with the vanilla game.

Thanks for the feedback! :)

Rimrue

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2017, 04:39:04 PM »

All right, as promised here is the link to the XML file that will make Non-Violent non-colonists no longer go berserk while in caravans. :)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v4011vocog5x2uk/Thoughts_Situation_Traits.xml?dl=0

Thanks!

wwWraith

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
  • ...
    • View Profile
Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2017, 04:55:34 PM »

I admit I suck at math, but wouldn't 0.1 be 1 in 10 and 0.05 be 1 in 20?

I may be wrong, but I think these numbers are relative weights rather then direct probabilities, so 0.5 only means "10 times more common than 0.05, 2 times more rare than 1", etc.

Anyway, thanks for the update :)
Logged
Think about it. Think around it. Probably you'll get some new good idea even if it would be completely different from my words.

My mods

Please don't copy Core bases in your mods

dburgdorf

  • Planetologist
  • ****
  • Posts: 1380
  • The dorfiest of dorf modders.
    • View Profile
    • My Facebook page. *Shrug* It's the only Web site I have these days.
Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2017, 05:35:50 PM »

The commonalities are in fact relative "weights." The chance of a given trait showing up depends upon the total weights of all available traits. If there are only three traits available, for example, with commonalities (weights) of 0.8, 0.4 and 0.2, then those traits would show up roughly 57%, 29% and 14% of the time, respectively. But if you were to add a fourth trait with a weight of 0.8, then the chance of either of the "common" traits showing up would drop to 36%, and the chance of the other traits showing up would drop to 18% and 9%, respectively.

So, knowing the weight of a given trait won't tell you anything about how often it will show up in absolute terms, but only how often it will show up in comparison to other traits.

If vanilla traits typically have weights of about 0.5, and the traits added in this mod have weights of 0.1 or 0.2, the new traits will randomly show up roughly a third as often as vanilla traits. That seems much too high for traits that are primarily intended to replace vanilla incapabilities. (And from what I've seen in testing things, though I hadn't really thought about it until the subject came up here, the new traits do seem to show up randomly with a pretty noticeable frequency.)

Honestly, I'd suggest setting the weights of the mod's traits substantially lower than you've proposed, probably somewhere in the 0.005 - 0.01 range, depending upon just how problematic they are.  They're going to show up often based on backstories, anyway. Additional purely random occurrences should be exceedingly rare.

EDIT: Obviously, the above comments are predicated on the assumption that users of this mod are working from the vanilla backstory database. If someone's using "Editable Backstories" and has eliminated incompatibilities, then with the commonalities I've proposed, the new traits will virtually never show up. But you can't do anything about that. ;) You have to balance the mod for vanilla usage, and assume that those who are making their backstories "kinder" understand that they're inherently making their game easier, and want it that way. :D
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 05:40:12 PM by dburgdorf »
Logged
- Rainbeau Flambe (aka Darryl Burgdorf) -
Old. Short. Grumpy. Bearded. "Yeah, I'm a dorf."



Buy me a Dr Pepper?

Rimrue

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2017, 06:23:52 PM »

My bad. I didn't fully understand how they worked. :/

When I designed the mod, since I was using REB as a base, I found the commonality I'd set to be fairly balanced. Since the update, now playing on vanilla, they do in fact randomly generate much more frequently than I thought they were. So apologies for getting that wrong.

In the next update they will still randomly generate, but very infrequently. After playing around with the numbers, I didn't see much of a difference between 0.05 and 0.001, so I'm going with the former so the traits will at least show up *sometimes* in REB. Lol

But, the other traits are showing up much more frequently now and it's not quite so difficult to find a decent colonist. :)

wwWraith

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
  • ...
    • View Profile
Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2017, 03:50:08 AM »

A little observation: the ShutIn trait probably should nullify the CabinFever thought.
Logged
Think about it. Think around it. Probably you'll get some new good idea even if it would be completely different from my words.

My mods

Please don't copy Core bases in your mods

Rimrue

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 343
  • Refugee
    • View Profile
Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2017, 04:17:59 AM »

I considered that but decided that it actually wouldn't. Humans are susceptible to cabin fever whether they prefer staying indoors or not. In fact, shut-ins may actually be more susceptible than others. Lol

wwWraith

  • Colonist
  • ***
  • Posts: 388
  • ...
    • View Profile
Re: [A17] Pawns Are Capable! (No more disabled work!) Updated to V2.0!
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2017, 06:34:56 AM »

Hmm, it's seems strange. Or it's me who are strange as I mostly can't get things like "I want it, but I don't want it" :D Or I just got wrong with the terms...
Anyway, you are the boss :)
Logged
Think about it. Think around it. Probably you'll get some new good idea even if it would be completely different from my words.

My mods

Please don't copy Core bases in your mods
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 11