[A17] CARNIVÀLE — now less dumb than Psychic Soothe! [alpha available]

[Shinzy]

Ohhh wow! this seems super promising

[PixelBitZombie]

The carni's taming mad animals would be an awesome selling point and just cool either way.

As far as save friendly goes, I've had a few mod where when they're updated they break the save. Not really sure why but some just do when they're updated. That is mainly why I was asking. I could see the fence being feasible. However since I've never seen a mod for it, I assume non controlled pawns "other than bots" can't deconstruct? I know they most likely wouldn't carry, but the small amount of free wood is a decent trade off I think? Been in the game for a few hours and still haven't heard from the Roaming Carnival/w Comm Console unless the mod includes like an actual Radio, which I didn't look.

[Xnope]

I could see the fence being feasible. However since I've never seen a mod for it, I assume non controlled pawns "other than bots" can't deconstruct? I know they most likely wouldn't carry, but the small amount of free wood is a decent trade off I think?

I wrote my own special toils that allow carnies to deconstruct their own buildings. If I were to add fences, I actually think I might make them costless constructions, as there is no guarantee that they would have cut enough wood and they are already carrying a lot with them when they come in.

Been in the game for a few hours and still haven't heard from the Roaming Carnival/w Comm Console unless the mod includes like an actual Radio, which I didn't look.

You added it into an existing save, am I right? Might be my bad. I need to release a patch (can't do it now, have work to do), because the way I was previously dynamically adding in carn factions to existing saves was deprecated since I moved to a MapComponent, and I definitely forgot to rewrite it... sorry guys. If the mod is working correctly, roaming carnival factions should appear in the Factions tab and the Comms Console. (BTW interactions via the Comms Console is pretty useless / may be broken. Haven't written logic for it yet, but I think gifting silver should work fine.)


EDIT: Alright I patched it. Should work with existing saves. Easy fix. Also, slight tweaks to backstory details, and prizes are now clamped at under 100 silver in value. Let me know if that's cheap of me, but while testing I got one of the best helmets in the game by only paying an entrance fee of 19 silver :O

Update is v0.0.4 and is attached to the OP. I did other bugfixes while I was at it.

[Napple]

How will this interact with hospitality.

[Soupy Delicious]

Xnope, in regards to your prize-clamping, I agree with your decision totally.  If a carnival came to my town, what I'd be wanting out of prizes would be niche, quaint things.  I can imagine carnies would travel around, making their own clothes and all that.

[PixelBitZombie]

Hmm, they're suppose to radio in correct? I can see them in the Comms, but have yet managed to have them call. Guess I should call them and see whats up.``

[Xnope]

Hmm, they're suppose to radio in correct? I can see them in the Comms, but have yet managed to have them call. Guess I should call them and see whats up.``

I tried to communicate this in the OP. It's a rare occurrence, at best it can happen once per season. I made it exactly as rare as the original psychic soothe. This is what I need feedback on.

Do you think I should increase the occurrence chance drastically for early testing purposes? Then tweak it back down towards release?

Side note, they radio in the same way a chased traveler asks for asylum, which can happen with or without having built the Comms Console. I believe Tynan's justification for this was that your colonists have short-range radio from their escape pods, but the Comms Console represents global and orbital communication. In other words, Comms Console currently has no function at all in this mod, but I plan on implementing them, i.e. requesting a carnival, or carnivals being able to schedule far in advance to visit you.

How will this interact with hospitality.

I'll test that shortly. To my knowledge (I've read Hospitality source code for reference), Hospitality should not affect Carnivale behaviours, and thus the vice-versa should be true. My plans for having visitors in general while carnivals are around are to have them interact by having visitors play games, watch shows, trade, etc. Specific compatibility for that feature will have to be written.

All, remember that this is in its earliest testing phase, by the time I'm willing to call it a release I will have answers to most questions like these.

[PixelBitZombie]

I tried to communicate this in the OP. It's a rare occurrence, at best it can happen once per season. I made it exactly as rare as the original psychic soothe. This is what I need feedback on.

Do you think I should increase the occurrence chance drastically for early testing purposes? Then tweak it back down towards release?

You'll have to excuse me I was really tired when I wrote that. After the RW session I just jumped into the reply section and mindlessly wrote that lol.
Once per season seems a little excessive. Maybe every 8 Days? 15 days in each season right? Maybe 10.. Honestly I wasn't counting the days since added so they may show up soon I don't know. I think I'm about to hit winter shortly. A season sounds nice but once you think about it, it's quite awhile.

Oh, that is weird, I saw them in the console and even had a "ask to fight for and trade with by asking for caravan" Unless this is stupidly a coincidence. I believe they were labeled, Handy and Worker Carnivale. But yes that feature would be nice, paying for a carnivale to setup in town if your colony is in the dumps and needs cheering up.

[Xnope]

I've made the minimum refire days 8 for now. I may increase this for release, but it'd be easier on the testers. v0.0.5 is attached below and in OP. I forgot to mention this earlier, but their is a chance adjustment if there are roads on your map, from 1.0 to 1.5. Additionally in v0.0.5, I've added a population curve chance. Essentially, they won't even bother showing up if you have 2 or fewer colonists, they have the normal chance if you have 5, and they have double chance if you have 12 or more. See below image for what the curve looks like.



EDIT: Also thank you so much for giving this a test. I'm also having my friend test it, and I really appreciate the feedback. I didn't make this mod for me, so it means a lot to see someone else has interest in it

[attachment deleted by admin due to age]

[PixelBitZombie]

I think I got 7 Colonists at the moment. I've been through 3 Seasons, weird I haven't seen them yet. Out of curiosity, would they visit the Arid Shrubland or Tundra? I feel like the Arid Shrubs would be fine. Got .5 Downloaded, maybe that will help.

I mean it could be the mods I have installed but I feel like that shouldn't affect it.

Edit: It finally appeared and we have a situation, in the picture you'll see the green arrows and red oval. The green arrows represent base to carnival.  I tried sending 3 colonists to the entrance to pay for the fee and halfway through the walk they gave up and went back to base to eat food.
The red oval represents where I thought the carnival would take place.

Suggestion: Maybe make a placement marker like the caravan trading spot, marriage spot, party spot. But doing so give it a boundaries limit, like maybe a 50x50 area or little smaller? Only can be placed outside if you so choose to use one of these spots.

[Xnope]

It's a small victory that the event fired. Random numbers, man. Unreliable. I could possibly make a set range of when it fires through C# instead of defs, so that it ALWAYS fires between a certain range of days, like maybe between 8-15. The way it works in vanilla is, there is a minimum of 8 days between occurrences, but after that it's completely random. You know that old thought exercise, that you could in theory flip 1,000 coins and never land a heads?

As for colonists giving up on paying the fee, you may have to just keep clicking on it once they give up, for now. Thanks for finding it, it's a priority bug on my to-do list, and I think I know how to fix it. I've got mother-in-law coming over in half an hour and it's hectic over here, so I'll be tackling it and other bugs tonight
EDIT: I think I fixed it, the commit is on GitHub, but I'm super tired so I'll have to upload release v0.0.6 tomorrow. It includes other fixes like preferring to use open space near the colony more, and generally better arranged buildings. Important note, it will take an update to XnopeCore v0.0.2, which I will also upload tomorrow.

Also, good idea about making a placeable spot. Seems easy to implement. Might also make a PlaceWorker that disallows it from be placed too close to the centre of your colony, otherwise it'd be too difficult to write code that makes sure it doesn't block your doors, defenses, resources, etc.

[Xnope]

UPDATE! I can't even remember all the fixes I've made, it was a solid number of hours of work. At the very least, I vastly improved setup spot calculation, that bug with colonists giving up before paying the fee should be gone (bigger maps may have the problem again), and biggest of all... carnies are badasses!

I spent a lot of time tweaking their defense AI to be as intelligent as possible. I'm pretty happy with the result, though as I go along I will probably be improving it. As of my last test, a carnival with only 3 guards w/ standard ranged weapons were able to down 2 centipedes with only one casualty. No, I didn't overpower their combat power, I just gave them smarter tactics. For each carny that gets wounded, they start to intelligently defend the weak and will eventually run away. If any event like this occurs, unfortunately they will pack up as soon as the threat is neutralised.

Now that I'm thinking about that last point, I should make it so they only pack up to leave if they had casualties, otherwise they stay for more entertainment.

Oo, and they should bury their own dead.

Find download in OP! Note that it requires an update to XnopeCore v0.0.2 too.

Edit: Todo list:

• Carnies need to tend to their wounds after combat, and I would also like them to bury their dead and have small funerals. It opens up an opportunity to have some cool 'singing' sustainers around the event.
• I think I want to slightly increase the likelyhood of firing the event if enough of your colonists have poor moods. It would also depend on your difficulty setting. Again, we're dealing with random numbers here, so no guarantees, to maintain the difficulty of psychological survival.
• What do you guys think about also decreasing the likelihood of vanilla psychic soothe altogether? They already can't fire together.
• Already someone suggested having beastmaster carnies, if they spawned, being able to soothe manhunter beasts. I would balance it by having them take time and therefore damage in doing so, so they would be particularly ineffective against a manhunter pack.
• New idea: if a psychic ship crashes, and a true gypsy carny spawns (yes, there are fake gypsies), I could have them perform some ritual that reduces the effect of the ship, but it wouldn't destroy it and the effect would be lost when the carnies leave. The balance lies in the random chance that no true gypsy spawns, that the mitigation wouldn't be total, and that the carnival doesn't stay too long.
• Maybe the beastmaster and gypsy events would have to be requested and would cost silver.

This list is primarily for my own purposes, but I'm putting it here instead of just a sticky note in case any of y'all want to give feedback.

[Soupy Delicious]

I was thinking: if there's a beastmaster come along with the circus, and there are man hunters around, perhaps they would not necessarily have to tame the beast. I envisage them facing off a maddened bear, using their understanding of the animal spirit to temporarily halt the beast in its tracks (with intimidation, say). I see them rudimentarily communicating with it (me give you food). And the animal is calmed and the show may simply go on.

OR, the beastmaster fails to calm it and the animal resumes madness; or, rarely, the animal is tamed and joins the circus  (it SHOULD be rare, to keep things plausible and therefore immersive ).

In regards to your ideas of burial, I'm a bit iffy. Here's what I'm thinking: it seems very personal bury your friend in someone else's territory, and I can picture them burying in insensible spots that would take you out of it, and I can much more easily picture them taking the body with them as they leave. It's all left up to the imagination then.

In regards to your suggestion of decreasing psychic soothes to balance: yeah, Id say yeah. If you're adding in another vector for colony happiness it's gotta even out.
Or, perhaps you could make it so that every time a psychic smooth WOULD happen, the storyteller would 'roll again' to determine whether or not a carnival of some sort comes to town. And again, this has to be a rare treat otherwise it will be no treat at all. What do you think?

[Xnope]

I like your ideas about the psychic soothe mechanic. I could make this only fire if a psychic soothe was going to fire, and then it flips a coin. The coin would be weighted by the previously stated factors, like your map's proximity to roads and the population curve.

Oh and I wasn't going to make an actual grave to dirty the player's map for carny burial, it would just be a little moment with maybe some temporary graphics and then it would 'destroy' the corpse. I thought it was more immersive this way, because traveling caravans in the old west would bury their dead wherever they were, wherever they could. Should have been clear about that. And as for nonsensical spots being chosen, as you might notice (especially in the next update, holy shit I spent a lot of love in geometry) I'm pretty good at on-the-fly cell calculation.

The beastmaster ability is going to be a ways down the road, but I'm liking your ideas. I'm glad they're written here for future reference. If I focus on this now though, I'll be working on non-essential features and I kinda want to get this thing complete

[Soupy Delicious]

Hey yeah, of course man. I was getting a bit excited and just putting out ideas.

Gotta make that point about commonality of carnivals happening, though. To make this mod fit in seamlessly with the vanilla experience you're going to have to work hard to make sure it doesn't make you feel like your colony is the centre of the universe, or make it feel like there are millions of carnivals scouring the planet. Either one of those have the same effect, and take you out of it.

Nearly every event in the vanilla game effects 'this entire region of the planet' (even though it doesn't actually), but with a carnival coming to town, things are a little different ;P. So yeah, sorry to reiterate, but carnivals have to come to town believably (the factors you mentioned it will be based off are good!).  Perhaps you and I may have a different idea of what this mod means, but if a carnival was coming to town every month, or even every two, I'd be taken out of it.

When the circus comes to town, I want to be filled with excitement and relief; my deep thirst to be quenched.  I know people want content out the ass, and I know that a mod that adds an event that rarely comes is strange to some, but things taste better and better the longer one goes without, and visa versa