Bionics in A17

[Mkok]

So, I am currently in middle of summer 5502, and so far, I have not seen a single bionic body part! I even send caravan to the nearest tribe, and town, but nothing! I also ordered a bunch of trade caravans, mostly exotic traders, but so far the only stuff I got were some prosthetics, and a power claw.

I am litterally sitting on like 10k silver (mostly in thrumbo horns, since I didnt get enought traders with silver to sell them yet  ) and I have almost no use for it! Guess I will have to start making rooms out of silver 


Am I just really unlucky, or is it near immpossible to obtain any bionics in A17? I really need a bionic hand, since my lvl 20 builder lost her hand, and with only prosthetic hand, she still has only 92% build chance! 

[Canute]

Unluck in the game, luck in love. Its sadly random what trader got.

Orbital trader got at last more silver to trade, be sure you got a com console, but i think you have since you ordered caravans.

[GreatDookuTree]

Actually, A17 did reduce the chance of caravans carrying high quality and "exotic" items like bionics, now it's not unusual for exotic traders to lack bionics and it seems rare for them to have more than one and (at most two) while back in a16 it was the norm for an exotic trader to have as much as 2-4 bionics (rarely having none).

Exotic trade ships are usually your best bet but their stock is still a bit less than you might be used to.

[eadras]

This is one reason that I always use the EPOE mod.  The other being how ridiculously easy it is for colonists to have fingers and toes destroyed, and how much of an impact on their performance that causes..

[Pickle]

Same for me, I couldn't play without EPOE or at least Harvest Everything mods installed. Last time I played in vanilla I had to remove the bionic eye of a pawn to give it to an other who lost his two eyes in combat. I got only one bionic eye in five years.

On the other hand I had a girl who got her arm torn off by an mad iguana, their is a huge lack of balance between how easily you can loose a limb or an eye and the difficulties you have to get it back.

[Bozobub]

The current system merely ensures savescumming.  I no longer have even the slightest qualm about doing so, when someone loses a leg to a mad squirrel (yes, really and no, didn't get a screenie ).  Actual combat?  Sure.  Squirrel?  No, f*ck you, *reload*.  It's just about the only reason I do so, in fact.

Difficulty (as a concept) is one thing but massively maddening mechanics merely mortify many, methinks.

[Goldenpotatoes]

The current system merely ensures savescumming.  I no longer have even the slightest qualm about doing so, when someone loses a leg to a mad squirrel (yes, really and no, didn't get a screenie ).  Actual combat?  Sure.  Squirrel?  No, f*ck you, *reload*.  It's just about the only reason I do so, in fact.

Difficulty (as a concept) is one thing but massively maddening mechanics merely mortify many, methinks.

And with that, you kill the fun of the game's insanity.

If the squirrel hit that many consecutive attacks on a single limb to destroy/bite it off, you probably deserved being de-legged by it.

[mumblemumble]

Bozo raises a good point, but more about amputation than anything - currently limbs are too easily ripped off, when in reality a bunch of punches would NEVER rip your arm off (unless you were the hulk or had razor blade knuckles) but would instead leave your arm so bruised you couldn't use it.

[erdrik]

I agree amputation is way too frequent.

Its also kinda too stealthy.
There needs to be more feedback when it occurs. Im already in the habit of checking my colonists health after literally every potential injury incurring event. Its kind of annoying to have to cycle through all your colonists to find out if one of them is now armless. I would like it if losing an eye, arm, hand, leg, or foot caused a note to appear on the side of the screen. Or at the very least one of those top of the screen feedback messages.

[TheMeInTeam]

The current system merely ensures savescumming.  I no longer have even the slightest qualm about doing so, when someone loses a leg to a mad squirrel (yes, really and no, didn't get a screenie ).  Actual combat?  Sure.  Squirrel?  No, f*ck you, *reload*.  It's just about the only reason I do so, in fact.

Difficulty (as a concept) is one thing but massively maddening mechanics merely mortify many, methinks.

And with that, you kill the fun of the game's insanity.

If the squirrel hit that many consecutive attacks on a single limb to destroy/bite it off, you probably deserved being de-legged by it.

On the other hand, your colonists and their man-sized hands with paper fingers get them easily removed in encounters that I could win bare-handed in reality.  I'm not in the worst shape ever, but I'm no martial arts master either.

Worse still is that these stupid injuries matter.  Not just losing a thumb, losing a single pinky can make a world-class master constructor fail to build something to the point of wasting resources with more frequency than someone with many hours less experience.

Here is the counter-play to such inane outcomes:

- Don't take damage.

That's it.  Under the current rules, the game is sufficiently punitive in this regard that the direct incentive to avoid permanent damage to productivity is to work every mechanic possible to avoid taking damage at all, because no amount of armor or preparation can protect you from unlucky hits to eyes, fingers, or toes.

The bizarre multiplication of likelihood of injuries that are uncommon in reality, even during brutal violence, coupled with less access to using wealth to replace injuries puts a distinct RNG/fake difficulty feel to an aspect of the game that previously depended much more on how well you played.

You can still progress in Rimworld, but I don't like that direction.

[Bozobub]

Exactly.  When losing digits and limbs to small animals becomes *common*, there's an obvious problem.  Even downed prey IRL rarely loses a digit or limb in the process; that happens AFTER the prey is downed, when there's time for gnawing.

Again, the current paradigm has completely removed Permadeath as a game mode, for me.   It's simply not worth the aggravation.

[Perq]

I wouldn't mind missing limbs being important if not for the artificial gating of their availability.

If have to spend 700 silver only to roll a dice and then get nothing I'm interested in buying (because I'm looking for bionics only), something is seriously wrong.
I'd much rather have them be 50% more expensive than 50% less available.

[b0rsuk]

Worse still is that these stupid injuries matter.  Not just losing a thumb, losing a single pinky can make a world-class master constructor fail to build something to the point of wasting resources with more frequency than someone with many hours less experience.

Here is the counter-play to such inane outcomes:

- Don't take damage.

That's it.  Under the current rules, the game is sufficiently punitive in this regard that the direct incentive to avoid permanent damage to productivity is to work every mechanic possible to avoid taking damage at all, because no amount of armor or preparation can protect you from unlucky hits to eyes, fingers, or toes.

I fully agree with this. If Tynan can't come up with some less contrived mechanic, this shows crisis of his imagination.

It doesn't feel like colonist are becoming scarred, grizzled veterans. It feels like they're falling apart. You will NEVER make up for a loss of a finger with skill. If Jim is level 20, Joe is level 14, Joe will eventually get better than Jim. For most skills it's only a matter of time until they reach level 20, and if you lack job opportunities to raise Joe 14 -> 20, this means Jim's skill would also decay down from 20. Maybe if there were also scars that made characters look more terrifying in battle, negotiations, or fascinate the opposite sex. Scars and traumas that made characters pursue different skills and jobs they were previously not interested in (there's trauma savant, but incredibly rare). Something that would make people feel participating in combat is not a strict loss, but that it can influence and modify people.

I know the movie "First Blood", starring Sylvester Stalone, is not a great example of realism. But the psychological aspect of it is very interesting, and how past experiences make Johny Rambo freak out if pushed. Now imagine the story was instead about Rambo losing finger after finger.

There are examples of very interesting characters that are cripples, such as Glokta in "Blade Itself". But it takes great storytelling to pull that off, not randomly generated nutrient paste.

I'll use Eldritch Horror (the board game) example again. EH is similar game in many aspects in that you have a team of people working together and they can accumulate various injuries. Unlike Rimworld, it's very goal-oriented (with time limit) and tightly designed. It's a game that deals out a plethora of random punishments on players, mostly when you fail some kind of challenge. But the kind of players it attracts are not bothered by having characters with paranoia, leg wound, hypothermia. Those are semi-permanent, they go away with time or may be removed by a lucky roll on 'rest' action. Unlike in Rimworld, these injuries make future encounters more dangerous, pushing characters close to death. To a degree, players like them because they make great stories when suddenly luck runs out or a crawling, bleeding character saves the world by a fluke. What many EH players hate however, are "impairment" tokens from some expansions. Those are permanent stat decreases and extremely rare to get rid of. Impairment tokens function very much like scars/lost limbs in Rimworld, and player response is similar.

[Bozobub]

I wouldn't mind missing limbs being important if not for the artificial gating of their availability.

If have to spend 700 silver only to roll a dice and then get nothing I'm interested in buying (because I'm looking for bionics only), something is seriously wrong.
I'd much rather have them be 50% more expensive than 50% less available.

Yeah, pretty much this.  I don't mind so much if there's a way to compensate somehow, even if expensive.  But near-perma-gimp of a valued pawn is incredibly easy atm, and there's jack-shit but RNGeebus to thank or blame for it.

I think it's pretty obvious, if nothing else, that wound locations and results badly need their weights adjusted, if the penalties are going to stay as they are.

[offtopic]Thanks for the heads-up on Eldritch Horror, b0rsuk; looks interesting.[/offtopic]

[Vlad0mi3r]

Yep it is an issue with A17. I thought power claws had been removed from the game after not seeing one for over 4 years in game.

My thoughts on redressing the issue:
1. Expand prosthetics that can be manufactured by the player. I understand there is probably a mod for this but as a vanilla permadeath player this is not an option. The ability to manufacture something other than a peg leg would be good. Just simple prosthetics not bionics, using steal, plasteal and some components.

2. Provide means to protect damageable body parts. So Gloves, Boots, Goggles etc.

3. Adjust the severe damage (Limb loss, Digit and eye) based on the damage type:
Bruising damage should never result in the loss of a body part.
Small calibre damage, Pistols, rodent teeth small chance loss of digits (very small chance)
Medium and Large calibre stepping up the potential for loss.

Getting hit in the hand by a 303 rifle should and would destroy your hand. Getting bitten by a rodent (I have been) won't cause you to loose your finger.

Finally Social fights;
Who fights with someone on your own team until you have "destroyed both their thumbs". especially while others stand by and watch. "Oh look there is Ray snapping Di Neros thumbs off, guess he won't be making any nice beds to sleep on any more. I'll just get a simple meal and watch the show." For reference just Youtube search people fighting and you can see it doesn't end this way even when its full on serious. So either reduce the damage or allow one or both parties social fighting to be arrested.

Just my thoughts on the subject