Thoughts on ANTIFA

[KillTyrant]

There appears to be a rising "Anti fascist" movement that dresses in black and attacks people and places of business. Most recently I heard of their antics at the G20 summit. Ive also noticed these people are mostly middle class late teens/early twenties and/or liberal college professors. Im kind of curious what others thoughts are of this group of people.

Please follow the standard forum rules and if you can elaborate on your thoughts, it would be appreciated.

[A Friend]

The group that accuses everyone that don't side with them as being a nazi and then beating the shit of them?

Ehhhhh.....

[Kegereneku]

I support only the intents and the goals, but to be a "movement" this barely worth calling "groups"(plural) are lacking in coordination & organizations skills, as well as in the self-control to avoid blunder or doing more bad than good.

Yet I don't think we can dismiss the rage and violence displayed.
We've let the world's inequalities and injustices worsen and set themselves in stone, stronger and more insidious than they were in the past. Some walls take force to break.
No fascist, racist or plutocrat in the past ever had the means of controlling information we have today. Hoping the same means will passively "cancel out" in favor of peace, freedom and wisdom may be wishful thinking.

In the end, "solving problem" imply a constructive outcome, it's what distinguish a "movements" from a mobs. And for now ANTIFA is only a mobs letting out steam.
At best they are a background noise for all the smaller entities trying to repair the world, rather than break it for parts.

That aside, it's pretty low on my radar. Much more important group exist even if they don't get the same attention.

Edit:typo

[KillTyrant]

Did you not see the estimated 7000+ black bloc  members and the riots and looting that ensured? For me, that is a direct threat to any sort of peace thus isn't flying under my radar.

I fundamentally don't agree with them and anyone that agrees with them. Rage can be manufactured under false pretenses and violence is never acceptable and is counter to western democracy.

I am still very interested in others thoughts. Agree or disagree. I want to see and hear it all.

[Kegereneku]

Oh I totally agree that it should not be something we casually ignore.
But there is much greater problems around (often coming from much smaller group) that have greater consequences.

So I leave it to other to share our indignation on that topic and excuse myself.

[Listen1]

Well... I don't know anything of it and it's the first time it appeared for me. I did some reasearch and only found vague content or biased articles bashing this group.

Does someone have some realiable/unbiased fonts for me to know this group?

[KillTyrant]

Well... I don't know anything of it and it's the first time it appeared for me. I did some reasearch and only found vague content or biased articles bashing this group.

Does someone have some realiable/unbiased fonts for me to know this group?

You would be pretty hard pressed to find anyone talking positive about a terrorist organization. (New Jersey officially recognizes Antifa as a terror group) When you have a group of people that cover their faces, attacking by standers and take over an otherwise peaceful protest. You will only find negative things said about them because they are a negative group. It would be one thing if they used their voice to argue but they raise their fists. There is no redemption in western culture for rabid animals.

[A Friend]

Does someone have some realiable/unbiased fonts for me to know this group?

Like finding a needle in a haystack.

This video sums it up pretty well without being too biased.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgZm8nvBotM

[Listen1]

I saw some actions on this video, and it led me to this one (half an hour long) that gives good description of the movment and the "Black Block" action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPvN5o2aRNs

The great thing this video taught me, was the diference between the movement (Antifa) and the BlackBlock, which is not a movement, it's a strategy to safely protest without putting your identity at stake. This strategy may or may not be violent.

And if what he speaks is true, Antifa (as many other anarchist/communist parties) is just misinformed and do not have a clear gol.

[BetaSpectre]

The biggest problem about these protesters are that they are very polarizing. They can alienate moderates to the other end of the spectrum, and are unlikely to gain moderates, but may strengthen ties within their own in groups.

Generally this is bad, but if there were enough people secretly agreeing it can spur action. Of course this is the USA one man has little ability to truly make a difference.

[KillTyrant]

I agree they are very polarizing but im not sure if I would say thats the biggest problem about them. Attacking by-standers and destroying private and public property are in my mind the biggest issues with them. I dont mind polarizing speech or actions should it fall within the letter of the law. So the KKK can have a permit to have their hate rally in the middle of Atlanta Georgia as they are legally allowed to. However, the KKK doesnt have permission to attack people or specifically call to kill/harm anyone.

Earlier someone tried to point out that Antifa and block bloc are different things to which I can agree. However, Antifa's primary form of protest IS block bloc. They hide their identities and move in large numbers so they can break the law and hurt people without fear of reprisal. I dont care about the peaceful protesters, they arent in the scope here. Im talking about those that are slamming people over the head with bike locks and attempting to stab people with flag poles. Because violence will be responded with violence and we are starting to see this happen with the more recent protesting.

I think most moderate and sane people will see antifa as the terrorist organization that it is. All these people are effectively doing in the states is re-elect Trump for 2020. (I would rather not get into a Trump debate on here. Either you like him or hate him for one reason or another. This thread is not the place)

[BetaSpectre]

Polarizing a population is bad it's what leads to people who break the laws. Let's assume there are two spectrum being against the law and with the law. When one group views the other as being wrong conflict will arise.

Things that cause disunity and more polarization by design will lead to conflict and there will always be that 1% who take it too far.

[Kegereneku]

Your example is a little caricatural BetaSpectre,
Sometime both side are fighting FOR the laws, until it become a law. Other time people become criminal because they just ran out of legal option to do what should be done.
Nowhere saying Antifa action are all ethical there, it's a sad day when hooligan can hijack/makeup moral cause.
(just making it clear: to me antifa is not cohesive enough to be called a single group, no matter what their site boast, fighting for the same #hashtag doesn't make you an organization)

[Listen1]

Polarizing someone can be said to be two parties trying to entice someone to fight for their cause right?

Antifa does not seem so organized to the point of making it. Their goal is obscure, it seems they want to get rid of the state, the private property and the... Neo-nazism? Again, they do not state their goals as an association, but the first one seems to relates to Anarchism, the second to socialism/comunism.

The junction of both is... really hard... if there are no private property, all property belongs to the state or to the people. Since we don't have a state (Because of the Anarchism) all property belongs to the people "as long as you use it". Since there is no property, there is only possesion. So if don't use it anymore, it can be anyones possesion...

If this is what they are fighting for... I find it very hard for them to achive it.

[KillTyrant]

Indeed, I find their Ideals to be innately hypocritical but I have no problems arguing and debating those points. My main contention is the acts of violence carried out by people who fly that banner and how they co-opt mostly peaceful protests and turn it into a spectacle. I dont view polarized views as something inherently bad. The moment people stop talking to each other is the pivot point that groups can turn each other into monsters thus violence isnt an issue.