How to win an argument with annoying people?

[keylocke]

Isaac asimov wrote an essay on security beliefs. I read it in his "magic" short story compilation.

Essentially a security belief is a belief that someone stands to gain something from if things work out a certain way, and a belief that doesnt harm their outcomes if the belief is incorrect. he uses the example of religion and believing in god. If one believes in god then one may be reborn or benefit from "heaven" or some such. If god doesnt exist no one loses anything from believing in him. If god does exist and you dont believe in him you might not go to heaven (all depends on vengeful he is i guess) and if he does exist and you believe in him youll go to heaven.

That is a security belief. Some people refuse to accept what is more likely given overwhelming evidence because that is what they choose to believe. You cant make anyone change their beliefs, you can only hope the person your talking to has the good sense to be open minded to what your saying. When you discover the person you talking to is not open minded your wasting oxygen.

As others have said, frustrating as it is when you are almost certain you are right, dont waste time on the wrong people.

i feel like this part needs to be contested : "If god doesnt exist no one loses anything from believing in him."

the problem with this is that people end up fashioning their lives on a fairy tale. it's like believing in the "news" that the profit mongering mass media in tandem with their political allies are weaving on a daily basis: they present truths, half-truths, and lies indiscriminately and deliberately confusing the people by trying to convince them of the validity of their "news" and "surveys".

so people actually "lose" something by believing in "fairy tales" that are being misrepresented as "truths" (worst case: being represented as "the only truth").

i think more unbiased data and information as seen from varying (and sometimes contradictory) perspectives has more "truth" than all of the "truths" that any organised religion or political power or mass media is trying to instill in the minds of the people.

which is why the belief that : "If god doesnt exist no one loses anything from believing in him." needs to be debunked, because :

-which god are we talking about? (allah, jesus, spaghetti monster, morgan freeman, cthulhu)
-which organized religion's belief system are we talking about? (scientology, catholicism, islam, jedi, sith)

-if none of the 2 questions above applies : (ie : you're talking about a personally spiritual concept or belief system that does not affect any other person other than one's self) then good for you. otherwise, you're most likely helping to propagate fairytales masquerading as truths, which tends to be harmful because of the unnecessary discrimination and misinformation that is being instilled in other people's minds.

it's like the propaganda often misrepresented as "news" by the mass media  : almost everyone knows they're lying or they have hidden agendas, but since a lot of people tolerate it, the lies slowly becomes conceived as truths, which tends to be harmful in the long run.

anyways : empathy, morality, values, common sense, etc can be taught without any influence from organized religions. The "goodness" of a person does not need to have any divine or otherwordly origins. so yea.. nuff said.

[Splinterbee]

Isaac asimov wrote an essay on security beliefs. I read it in his "magic" short story compilation.

Essentially a security belief is a belief that someone stands to gain something from if things work out a certain way, and a belief that doesnt harm their outcomes if the belief is incorrect. he uses the example of religion and believing in god. If one believes in god then one may be reborn or benefit from "heaven" or some such. If god doesnt exist no one loses anything from believing in him. If god does exist and you dont believe in him you might not go to heaven (all depends on vengeful he is i guess) and if he does exist and you believe in him youll go to heaven.

That is a security belief. Some people refuse to accept what is more likely given overwhelming evidence because that is what they choose to believe. You cant make anyone change their beliefs, you can only hope the person your talking to has the good sense to be open minded to what your saying. When you discover the person you talking to is not open minded your wasting oxygen.

As others have said, frustrating as it is when you are almost certain you are right, dont waste time on the wrong people.

indeed

[AstronauticalFerret]

Option one. Walk away.

Option two. Pick up a 600+ Page physics book and beat the stupid out of the motherfucker. Also make sure you have a good lawyer.

[StorymasterQ]

That's Pascal's Wager isn't it?

[sirdave79]

keylocke, I thought as I was writing "which god kind of matters", but asimov wrote it not me. Id just never thought about it like that. And I probably mangled his writings quoting them here, but that was close to what he wrote.

I totally agree that people fashion their lives around fairytales. Asimov also wrote about the dumbing down of america, and I suspect he had america in mind when he was talking about beleiving in god and going to heaven. People do fashion their lives around fairytales now. In fact id go as far as to say more people do that than dont. Thats the sad truth of our reality.

I agree also that you lose something by beleiveing in fairys, however I think asimov was suggestnig that from the point of view of someone who has already chosen to beleive, choosing not to beleive carries potential consequences and continuing has none.

And again were right back to you cant make anyone do or think anything. Its all up to them.

In england we have a newspaper called the sun. The sun often have provocative headlines. 99% of the time when you read the story its not how the headline suggests at all. I now no longer read the sun because I can (having read it to check on their sensational headlines enough times) usually predict the actual story from their headlines.

David Duchovny said it best as fox mulder, "trust no one". everyone has an interest.

[StorymasterQ]

I've got it! The best way to win any argument (not only with annoying people, but less satisfying not), is to use Insane Troll Logic and direct them to TVTropes. At worst, you'll lose them for about a day or two.

[Ednac]

Ok. The other day I was talking about a game (sir you are being hunted) and someone said it was a ripoff of gmod even tho they have completely different concepts. When I said this he said it was a ripoff cause they used the same gaming engine. (Which they do not) sir uses unity and gmod uses the half life engine. He kept saying it was a rip and got his friends who has never even played them to help with the argument. After 20 minutes I was just done with him. 

At this point he has no idea what he is talking about, and is most likely a condescending douche. A solution would be to shoot him in the back of the head with a sawn-off shotgun healing him of his stupidity. Then commit an act of necrophilia on him.

[Cpt.Fupa]

Kill them. But if thats too hard just dont talk to them.