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Author Topic: [A17] Toolmetrics: Work Tools for Pawns  (Read 14820 times)

wedekit

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Re: [A17] Toolmetrics: Work Tools for Pawns
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2017, 05:12:58 PM »

So I really like the thought behind this mod. I'm not sure if you really asked for this level of critique, but I think this could easily become a staple mod with some trial and error tweaks.


1. It's not readily apparent what each of the new items do. When I opened up the .xml files it all made sense to me, but perhaps the descriptions can be a little more direct about what stats are affected. A table with all the items and their affected stats would be helpful to players in general, so they can pick the best item for their pawns. For example, scythe, shovel, and sickle all have farming implications, but the specifics would really incluence a person's choice to equip them.

2. I appreciate the flavor text though. Here's an example/thought of how I would approach the item descriptions:

First Aid Kit (Immunity gain speed: .05; Medical Tend Quality: .15; Medical Tend Speed: .75)
Description: Preparation is the first step to survival. First Aid Kits provide a compact set of tools to make medicine application swifter, more effective, and helps the patient fight off disease.

The next one I think gives only a hint of the negative effect but doesn't indicate the positive effect:

Smart Phone (Work Speed Global: -.05; Global Learning Factor: .75)
Your Description: Smartphones are cheap, portable, and widely available, but your pawns might have problems letting go
My Suggestion: The cutting edge in personal devices! Access to the intergalactic web of information greatly improves the learning process, but good luck trying to get the lucky owner to do much else!

Whistle (TrainAnimalChance: .2)
Your Description: When you blow it, you can't hear anything. But the animals can!
My Suggestion: Just rename it to training whistle and I think the description is fine. When reading this one I wasn't aware of if it was for training or taming.

Axe (Plant Work Speed: .4; Door Open Speed: .2; Plant Harvest Yield: -1)
Your Description: Used for cutting down plants, but not planting them.
My Suggestion: This handy axe is useful for quickly clearing flora, but not very efficient at gathering resources.

Also, I'm not sure why it increases door open speed... Every now and then I saw a item stat that made me scratch my head. 

3. I think some of the items included can be cut, as part of the mod design is to have the user choose to sacrifice a gun for the use of a tool. The crowbar is definitely one, as it only increases door open speed. It just doesn't hold as much weight as many of the other items do. If deconstruction time is a stat, I would say the crowbar could be given that and it would be viable again. I don't want to go down the list and list the ones that I think don't really add much, but just wanted to suggest making the mod a little more parsimonious.

I'll let you know if I think of anything else. My next step was to check and see how balanced these stat increases are but I'd need to explore more of the code to find out. Like I said, I'm a new player so I have a lot to learn about the mechanics still.
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123nick

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Re: [A17] Toolmetrics: Work Tools for Pawns
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2017, 02:57:41 AM »

if you could have, with the list of tools on the main page, a description of what stat each tool buffs, that would be great. i wanna know if theres anything that increases crafting speed, or similar.
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SirDerpface

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Re: [A17] Toolmetrics: Work Tools for Pawns
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2017, 04:53:09 AM »

So I really like the thought behind this mod. I'm not sure if you really asked for this level of critique, but I think this could easily become a staple mod with some trial and error tweaks.


1. It's not readily apparent what each of the new items do. When I opened up the .xml files it all made sense to me, but perhaps the descriptions can be a little more direct about what stats are affected. A table with all the items and their affected stats would be helpful to players in general, so they can pick the best item for their pawns. For example, scythe, shovel, and sickle all have farming implications, but the specifics would really incluence a person's choice to equip them.

2. I appreciate the flavor text though. Here's an example/thought of how I would approach the item descriptions:

First Aid Kit (Immunity gain speed: .05; Medical Tend Quality: .15; Medical Tend Speed: .75)
Description: Preparation is the first step to survival. First Aid Kits provide a compact set of tools to make medicine application swifter, more effective, and helps the patient fight off disease.

The next one I think gives only a hint of the negative effect but doesn't indicate the positive effect:

Smart Phone (Work Speed Global: -.05; Global Learning Factor: .75)
Your Description: Smartphones are cheap, portable, and widely available, but your pawns might have problems letting go
My Suggestion: The cutting edge in personal devices! Access to the intergalactic web of information greatly improves the learning process, but good luck trying to get the lucky owner to do much else!

Whistle (TrainAnimalChance: .2)
Your Description: When you blow it, you can't hear anything. But the animals can!
My Suggestion: Just rename it to training whistle and I think the description is fine. When reading this one I wasn't aware of if it was for training or taming.

Axe (Plant Work Speed: .4; Door Open Speed: .2; Plant Harvest Yield: -1)
Your Description: Used for cutting down plants, but not planting them.
My Suggestion: This handy axe is useful for quickly clearing flora, but not very efficient at gathering resources.

Also, I'm not sure why it increases door open speed... Every now and then I saw a item stat that made me scratch my head. 

3. I think some of the items included can be cut, as part of the mod design is to have the user choose to sacrifice a gun for the use of a tool. The crowbar is definitely one, as it only increases door open speed. It just doesn't hold as much weight as many of the other items do. If deconstruction time is a stat, I would say the crowbar could be given that and it would be viable again. I don't want to go down the list and list the ones that I think don't really add much, but just wanted to suggest making the mod a little more parsimonious.

I'll let you know if I think of anything else. My next step was to check and see how balanced these stat increases are but I'd need to explore more of the code to find out. Like I said, I'm a new player so I have a lot to learn about the mechanics still.
With stuff like .75 you mean 75% faster right? As in 175% speed? .75 is 25% slower.
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OmG_PotatoeZ

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Re: [A17] Toolmetrics: Work Tools for Pawns
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2017, 02:30:31 PM »

Is this Combat Extended compatible?
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wedekit

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Re: [A17] Toolmetrics: Work Tools for Pawns
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2017, 01:07:30 PM »

if you could have, with the list of tools on the main page, a description of what stat each tool buffs, that would be great. i wanna know if theres anything that increases crafting speed, or similar.

There is a tool that increases speed for everything. The only worktable or task I can think of that is missing a corresponding tool is the drug table. Here are some that come to mind

- Chisel: Sculpting speed+ and Stonecutting+
- Hammer: Smithing speed+
- Thimble: Tailoring speed+ (including VG loom)
- Screwdriver: Construction success+ and repair success+
- Power drill: Construction speed+, Construction success+
- Pick axe: mining speed (including drilling)
- First Aid Kit: healing quality, healing speed, immunity gain
- Scalpel: Surgery speed+, surgery success chance+
- Leash: Taming chance+, training chance+
- Whistle: Training chance+
- Scythe: Harvest yield+
- Sickle:
- Trowel: Smoothing speed
- Chef Knife: Cooking Speed, Food Poison Chance decrease
- Pillow: Comfort+, Rest+
- Blanket: Warmth and Rest+
- Skinning Knife: Increase leather yield
- Butcher Knife(Cleaver?): Increase meat yield

There's more I'm not thinking of. It's pretty extensive.


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PreDiabetic

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Re: [A17] Toolmetrics: Work Tools for Pawns
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2017, 06:19:17 PM »

you said "weapon-slot hand" From I know non-violent pawns can't equip any type of weapon. Lots mods add tools they too suffer from non-violent problem.
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binkow

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Re: [A17] Toolmetrics: Work Tools for Pawns
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2017, 03:31:01 PM »

Why'd you post a mod with that many items but don't have any documentation on what any item does? Only reason I've been holding off on getting this mod.
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Ncates1234

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Re: [A17] Toolmetrics: Work Tools for Pawns
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2017, 03:50:00 PM »

The mod is amazing, but has problems. Not bugs but just silly stuff.
You need to make a new clothing slot for "Tools" like bundle of roses, backpacks-duffelbags (especially)
little tools like screwdrivers, scalpel and stuff not made for fighting in general. although scalpel could be made more dangerous and made an actual weapon

Stuff like drill, axe, pickaxe kept as weapons.

It just seems stupid how raiders come with bundle of flowers or books to beat my colonists.

Most important would be backpacks... My god should you make it an actual clothing, not a weapon. Who carries damned "Back-"packs in hands?
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wedekit

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Re: [A17] Toolmetrics: Work Tools for Pawns
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2017, 11:16:05 PM »

The mod is amazing, but has problems. Not bugs but just silly stuff.
You need to make a new clothing slot for "Tools" like bundle of roses, backpacks-duffelbags (especially)
little tools like screwdrivers, scalpel and stuff not made for fighting in general. although scalpel could be made more dangerous and made an actual weapon

Stuff like drill, axe, pickaxe kept as weapons.

It just seems stupid how raiders come with bundle of flowers or books to beat my colonists.

Most important would be backpacks... My god should you make it an actual clothing, not a weapon. Who carries damned "Back-"packs in hands?

I'm not a huge fan of raids coming in with the tools either. It's  little silly how they all rush you and try to poke you with a thimble. It also makes it so the hospitality mod ends up with a base full of these items when a satisfied visitor leaves.
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Ncates1234

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Re: [A17] Toolmetrics: Work Tools for Pawns
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2017, 09:42:46 AM »

Additionally, I have no plans to make objects such as pillows, blankets, or forks as accessories at the moment. Mechanically, the goal is to give the player interesting choices for their primary equipment slot. Having all the bonuses equipable without occupying that valuable slot defeats the purpose and would require rebalancing. Environmentally, you hold a fork in your hand and you can't hold both a fork and a gun and use them effectively.

Plus, it's hilarious to get a first raid with an Assassin background pawn carrying a pillow as a weapon =D
So I've read trough the comments...
Assassin with a pillow is rather scary actually, but could you atleast make a separate patch to make minor tools as accessories for those who don't like raiders with books and flowers raiding their home?

I mean you can still hold a pistol and that fork right? You do have 2 bionic hands after all...
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wedekit

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Re: [A17] Toolmetrics: Work Tools for Pawns
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2017, 01:23:10 PM »

Additionally, I have no plans to make objects such as pillows, blankets, or forks as accessories at the moment. Mechanically, the goal is to give the player interesting choices for their primary equipment slot. Having all the bonuses equipable without occupying that valuable slot defeats the purpose and would require rebalancing. Environmentally, you hold a fork in your hand and you can't hold both a fork and a gun and use them effectively.

Plus, it's hilarious to get a first raid with an Assassin background pawn carrying a pillow as a weapon =D
So I've read trough the comments...
Assassin with a pillow is rather scary actually, but could you atleast make a separate patch to make minor tools as accessories for those who don't like raiders with books and flowers raiding their home?

I mean you can still hold a pistol and that fork right? You do have 2 bionic hands after all...

To be honest, I just use simple sidearms with it. I put backpacks on my people that typically haul, scalpels and first aid kits on my doctors, chefs knives for the cooks, power drills on repair/maintenance/builders, and scythes (really speeds up planting and cutting) and my growers. Oh and whistle/leash for my handler. The encyclopedia on researcher.

Most of the other items are not really worth the time of micromanaging. And I suspect the door open speed items don't work as intended. I haven't tried them myself, but I've learned a bit about the XML and C# for modding the game and door open speed is strictly a building stat. It's the same as putting a bed rest effectiveness stat on a weapon... if it's not the bed, there's it does nothing.
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Ncates1234

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Re: [A17] Toolmetrics: Work Tools for Pawns
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2017, 03:20:52 PM »

To be honest, I just use simple sidearms with it. I put backpacks on my people that typically haul, scalpels and first aid kits on my doctors, chefs knives for the cooks, power drills on repair/maintenance/builders, and scythes (really speeds up planting and cutting) and my growers. Oh and whistle/leash for my handler. The encyclopedia on researcher.

Most of the other items are not really worth the time of micromanaging. And I suspect the door open speed items don't work as intended. I haven't tried them myself, but I've learned a bit about the XML and C# for modding the game and door open speed is strictly a building stat. It's the same as putting a bed rest effectiveness stat on a weapon... if it's not the bed, there's it does nothing.
The thing is, with side arms you manually have to switch their equipment aswell, except they don't have to go to the stockpile and get the item. There's plenty to micro manage already and that doesn't help alot... For now it's not worth it to equip an encyclopedia on my rifle wielder, atleast till Chrono can make them wearables. Hopefully...
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fong

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Re: [A17] Toolmetrics: Work Tools for Pawns
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2017, 08:20:16 AM »

Conflict with cuproPanda mod- "Quarry-17.310"

https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=32190#msg329352
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Harry_Dicks

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Re: [A17] Toolmetrics: Work Tools for Pawns
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2018, 02:54:38 PM »

Any plans for a B18 release?
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nbielinski

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Re: [A17] Toolmetrics: Work Tools for Pawns
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2018, 12:13:29 AM »

Just wanted to lean in and say that I love your mod. Simply put I find very few that expand on this idea of using tools, rather than drugs/body mods/skill trainers, to better yourself, maybe one or two but none that go to the initiative that you have. Very well done peep, especially for a first-time-mod, great work so far. My hope is you keep it up.
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