Best Defenses?

Dalzima · October 16, 2017, 05:02:31 PM

I have roughly 60 hours into Rimworld, the majority of which was me still learning. I am finally at the point where I have a very well self-sustained colony, my only problem is raids. I have walls with 2 auto turrets and double-layered sandbags on the outside but whenever I get raided I always struggle. The raiders will go over the sand bags and take out my turrets right away and then just stand outside waiting for me to attempt to attack them. I am curious as to what most of you using for your defenses? Please share! Screenshots would be nice as well!

P.S. This is my first post, sorry for any mistakes

sadpickle · October 16, 2017, 05:47:06 PM

Well, 2 turrets is usually not enough. I'm playing modded so I can't give you any vanilla examples. The favorite defense of most is a killbox. It is essentially a deliberate opening in your walls which you fortify with turrets, traps etc. Non-sapping raiders will look for a path into your base and if there is only one, they will walk into the killbox. Sappers will still tunnel through your walls, taking the shortest path available.

Really though, the best defense is well-armed colonists. With sufficient numbers you don't even need turrets.

EDIT: Also, check the coverage percentage of things. Sandbags are only ok; they're not great. A wall is better.

SpaceDorf · October 16, 2017, 06:21:19 PM

Best defense is a good offense !

sadpickle said it: armed pawns are always better than turret.
Many Weapons have a higher range than the turret, and a turret can't seek cover.
With pawns you can engage the enemy wherever you want.

Several small defense positions and different chokepoints on the map give you an upper hand.

Concerning the turrets :

Sandbags provide no cover for Turrets .. a turret only fires a salvo of 3 ..
so a turret is basically a unskilled pawn with an assault rifle ..

a fun turret position would look like this :

WW D W W
WTrTuTr W
STr Tr Tr S
S S S S S

Walls behind the turret, the turret surrounded by traps and the traps surrounded by sandbags.

Sandbags and Other Obstacles only slow enemies when climbing up or down .. rows of bags don't slow the enemie.

A trick to lure enemies further in, is to turn off the turrets and only turn them on, when the enemy is in range.

Dashthechinchilla · October 16, 2017, 10:51:47 PM

I use a killbox with a double thick wall around my base. I usually only have two. Each has four turrets, plasteel when I get it for durability surrounded by sandbags and deadfalls for attackers. The killbox has a single thick wall because who cares if they want to see my turrets sooner? I also use a deadfall maze with door shortcuts at the entrance before you face the turrets. Inside the killbox is a few planter pots to give surviving ranged raiders poor cover that they will try to use.

My perimeter is surrounded by a randomly placed mine field of IED to work on sappers, who also get pelted by dual regular mortars and an incendiary mortar I typically steal from a siege raider. Let them finish them before killing them to steal them. I try to keep 75+ shells on hand. Emp mortar for mechanoids.

I also have a killer forward turret set some distance ahead of the outside of my killboxes. I try to position so attackers will come across it on their way to the killbox, but in the open so they have poor cover. This is a cross or plus shaped set of turrtes, wall in between, roofed and surrounded by sandbags and cheap deadfalls. These are disposable and serve to slow the advance. Dont use good metal unless you have extra. They are also nice to hide a distance behind with sniper rifles for mechanoids and to turn on to help with manhunter.

Finally, I have an army of animals trained for release. In the end, my colonists rarely see direct combat when all is in place.

TheMeInTeam · October 17, 2017, 01:30:44 AM

Quote from: sadpickle on October 16, 2017, 05:47:06 PM
Well, 2 turrets is usually not enough. I'm playing modded so I can't give you any vanilla examples. The favorite defense of most is a killbox. It is essentially a deliberate opening in your walls which you fortify with turrets, traps etc. Non-sapping raiders will look for a path into your base and if there is only one, they will walk into the killbox. Sappers will still tunnel through your walls, taking the shortest path available.

Really though, the best defense is well-armed colonists. With sufficient numbers you don't even need turrets.

EDIT: Also, check the coverage percentage of things. Sandbags are only ok; they're not great. A wall is better.

Shooting the enemy without return fire >> just using cover, but the only way to do that is with experience interacting with the AI.

Stuff like turrets and traps mostly help against large numbers when your equipment is bad. In the late game options like charge rifles, miniguns, and mortars heavily outscale turrets and traps. Turret DPS is actually pretty weak, their main draw is that they're not a colonist, so you lose less when they sponge bullets. Traps are labor intensive and like turrets, pretty expensive. Helpful at first but they're barely doing anything by this point:

Canute · October 17, 2017, 03:16:32 AM

You should try at first a defence with no turrets.
Like Spacedorf said, a good defence is a good offence.
Get good accurate weapon, take cover behind some forward walls.
Attack them while they move, then they seek cover, cover yourself.

But if you realy want use of turrets, you will need 2-3 turrets for each attacking raider.
Don't forget that they can carry weapon with better range then your turrets.

{insert_name_here} · October 17, 2017, 04:10:42 AM

Sorry if this is a little too detailed

My current colony is on a large hills map and in the centre is a collection of hills where I have my base. I've walled off the entire base with 3-thick granite walls except for an opening in the north and an opening in the south. Both lead down 2-wide hallways laden with traps in a checkerboard/zigzag formation. This trap hallway usually kills about 2-4 raiders on its own and injures a few others, and it also helps spread out the raiders. The northern killbox isn't completed yet (and hasn't been completed for more than 1 in-game year, I should really get it done) while the southern killbox is done. In this killbox, I have three turrets on the right hand wall with sandbags in front of them separated by walls so they don't chain-react when one blows up and placed in such a way that they aren't able to accidentally hit my defending colonists. Meanwhile, on the northern wall, directly facing the entrance, I have sandbags and walls set up something like this:

WWSSWWSSWWSSWW

This is the same on the left wall, there just isn't as much room there so I can only fit in four sandbags. With this formation, I can have about 6-8 colonists behind walls firing at the enemy while being protected by sandbags.

SpaceDorf · October 17, 2017, 05:38:10 AM

Quote from: Canute on October 17, 2017, 03:16:32 AM
Get good accurate weapon, take cover behind some forward walls.
Attack them while they move, then they seek cover, cover yourself.

In addition, keep in mind to mix your weapons.
Accuracy and Range is important, but not everything.
And DPS is Bullshit, because it distracts from the Combat Role of the Weapon.

If you use Snipers, be aware that you need to cover them, either with melee pawns or fast firing short range Pawns.
So while the Sniper retreats to a better position, or enemies get to close they get the hail of bullets they deserve.

Albion · October 17, 2017, 09:39:37 AM

Quote from: {insert_name_here} on October 17, 2017, 04:10:42 AM
[...] Meanwhile, on the northern wall, directly facing the entrance, I have sandbags and walls set up something like this:

WWSSWWSSWWSSWW

This is the same on the left wall, there just isn't as much room there so I can only fit in four sandbags. With this formation, I can have about 6-8 colonists behind walls firing at the enemy while being protected by sandbags.

I use a variant of this with the following formation:
SWSSWSSWSSWS....

The major downside of putting two walls next to each other is that the firearc is severly limited and actually cut in half for the pawn sitting behind that wall since the game works by letting the pawn lean around the wall but if there is another wall in the way this isn't possible. I therefore use the single wall next to sandbags so the wall doesn't block any line of sight of the pawn behind it since he can lean around on both sides and has a full 360° firearc while using the wall for full cover.
I also put pawns behind the sand bags since they still benefit from the sandbags cover and after a few seasons in game I usually have a lot of shooters able to dish out quite a lot of damage.
I don't use any turrents since they are decently expensive, have shitty accuracy and require quite a lot of power. So far my purely pawn focused defense worked quite well for rough randy. Of course a non-turrent, no-killbox defense exposes your pawns to more danger but rimworld is hard and I deal with it

Additionally if I have the components to spare I place some IEDs in paths most used by raiders. They thin out the herd quite a bit. Especially with tribals.
And as Canute mentioned: Mix your weapons. Don't just use pistols, charge rifles or shotguns but also survival rifles, assault rifles and the occasional sniper. They deal less damage but are more accurate and fire long range which is a definite plus. My pawns actually use mostly survival rifles and assault rifles since in my opinion those are the ones with the best range/damage/accuracy mix. I use the others too though to have everything covered.

Also: Use trained animals and release them on your enemies. They are quite good and dishing out damage and will soak up enemy bullets so your pawns are more protected. After all: the lost arm of your master crafter is a tragedy, a lost leg of some random dog/boar means dinner.

Picture of my defense in action:

SpaceDorf · October 17, 2017, 10:44:34 AM

My preferred defense exploits doors as embrasure.
Held open they can cover two to three pawns, if I build sandbags in front of the doors, which I usually don't
Later in the game, I double the walls of my buildings so the exits of my defensible buildings look something like this

WW__________DD
WW__________WW
WW__________WW
WW__________WW
WWWDWWWDWWW
WWWDWWWDWWWW
W

the inner door is a wooden door, or later a steel or plasteel autodoor and the outer door is made from granite and held open.
On some cornes of my buildins there are aditional outcropping walls to provide additional covered positions.

ColonistGirl · October 17, 2017, 01:35:20 PM

I'm curious how some of these defenses would stack up against some of the massive raids my colony has been seeing. We've been there for 5 years at this point (because I planned to have the colony stick around, not leave), and have over time accumulated a LOT of wealth, grown in size, etc. 15 colonists, around 50k silver lying around, thousands of other resources, etc.

The last tribal raid we fended off (barely) was nearly 100 strong. It literally froze my computer for a good 20 seconds while they loaded onto the map. I've got a killbox set up with about 12 turrets firing at max range across a well-lit area (the turrets themselves are roofed, behind sandbags, and in darkness to provide better cover), the raiders had to walk a heavily-trapped switchback to enter the killbox, and the colonists are firing from behind sandbags and single-space walls for cover. Despite all that, we still took significant damage. One colonist lost an eye and had two ribs shattered, another colonist lost a hand, and two others were downed and nearly bled to death before we finally fended the raid off and made them run.

Weapons-wise, they're using primarily ARs, charge rifles, and incendiary launchers (to try and inflict damage when the enemies clump up, which they always do in these numbers).

It's fun, honestly, to see just how ridiculous the raids get. But without a killbox and all the traps, I don't see how we'd survive the raids.

TheMeInTeam · October 17, 2017, 04:30:08 PM

^ The setup I showed above could easily handle ~100+ tribal raid, with a good chance of avoiding any damage to pawns. Minigun DPS on 6+ miniguns in a corridor outclasses the rate at which humanlike can enter. There's a good chance they can put down triple rockets/doomsdays before they go off but it's better to play it safe and insanity lance/bait those with shield belts/duck and let them walk into traps then resume fire.

This is a maximum point tribal raid that dev mode allows, significantly stronger than colony wealth:

https://i.imgur.com/WwpLocf.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wUbtnVm.jpg

dkmoo · October 17, 2017, 05:21:46 PM

Trap mazes are my default first line of defense - it alone is usually enough to handle all non-sapper raids (even mechanoids) - The traps will thin out the herd so much that by the time they get thru it, they'll be so demoralized from seeing so many dead bodies that they'd retreat after getting a few shots.

My set up typically is something like this (you can make it as long and winding as resources allow)

W = Wall
T = deadfall trap
D = Door
S = slag or stone to slow the advance

[maze trap entrance]
WW WW
WW T WW
WW S DD
WW T WW
WW T WW
[outside] WW S DD [inside, walled off other than the maze entrance/exit]
WW T WW
WW T WW
WW S DD
WW T WW
WW T WW
WW S DD
WW T WW
WW T WW
DD S DD <-- Real door that your pawns can enter/exit base
WW T WW
WW T WW
WW S DD
WW T WW
WW T WW
WW S DD <- can post pawns on any of these doors to shoot at raiders as they approach.
WW T WW
WW WW
WW [Maze exit, can set up shooting range here. ]
WWWWW

Vlad0mi3r · October 17, 2017, 06:43:55 PM

Yes kill boxes, trap mazes and turrets can all add up and be used to hold the line. Apparently 100 boars is also a sure fire way to win most encounters.

There are also what I would call more passive methods of defence too. Improve your relationship with tribal factions. When those early raids come through with 6 or so tribal's capture any that are downed and heal them up(you don't even have to waste medicine on them but herbal helps). Once they are healed or even just capable of walking release them once the hit the edge of the map +15 rep with that tribal faction. They can be infected only one leg as long as they stumble off the edge of the map its all good. Get your reputation out of the negative no more massive raids. You can also just buy them off if you have a comms console but that costs silver.

Colony value verses colony advancement. Everything in this game has a value. Every time you increase your items, structure even food reserves you impact on your wealth. The higher the wealth the harder you will get hit (usually, your story teller will have an effect on this). So don't race to turrets thinking you will be safer if you have turrets. Just as mining that seam of plasteel that is next to your base will not help you if you cannot use it. If it is in the ground it doesn't count towards your wealth so leave it there until you are ready to use it.

The enemy dropped a Minigun, win for the home team you think? In the early stages of play picking up that gun could lead to the end of your colony. Miniguns can be valued at over 4000 silver that is the equivalent of 2 colonists. Miniguins in vanilla are about as useful as a hat full of arseholes (not very) so don't add that value to your colony it would be better to set it on fire and let it burn.

Limdood · October 17, 2017, 09:32:34 PM

important notes:

-a missed shot strikes an adjacent tile. If there is a pawn in the adjacent tile, the bullet may hit that pawn. Whenever possible, always keep pawns with at least one tile empty between them, including diagonally (when facing centipede mechanoids, leave 3 empty tiles if possible and you'll avoid incidental hits from the huge splash damage of ANY of the centipede weapons)
- a pawn directly behind a wall can lean out from the wall to shoot if there is an open lane. For example, a pawn directly in the first tile around a corner can lean around the corner to shoot.
- pawns leaning to shoot benefit from cover from the wall AND can benefit from "soft" cover, like sandbags, trees, or rock chunks as if they were in the tile they're "leaning" into. This lets them double dip and stack cover bonuses to further reduce chance to be hit.
- a wall around your base that isn't quite completed (a few gaps in strategic places) can OFTEN help you to be sure of a better defensive position. You can build cover facing the gaps, and the enemies will tend to funnel towards the gaps you leave rather than hit walls (sappers and sieges are exceptions)
- turrets can benefit from cover the same as pawns. A couple turrets actually can go a long way to distract incoming raiders while your pawns also shoot them. ranged attacks will struggle to hit the turrets, and melee attackers will take the bullet storm from your pawns and risk the turret exploding.
- to use a trap effectively, it has to fit 2 criteria: it has to be in a location that enemies HAVE to travel over to access your base (i like using a 1-tile wide corridor in the perimeter wall. It also has to be able to SAFELY be able to be reached by a friendly pawn (you can build doors in your corridor every 2 tiles to allow your pawns to reset traps, or use the staggered trap approach in the above screenshot). Don't forget to put some tough doors in the wall near your corridor so your pawns can leave without walking over your own traps.