Poll: How should modders update their mod on Workshop after Rimworld updates?

Started by Roolo, November 20, 2017, 11:05:03 AM

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When Rimworld is updated, mod developers using Workshop should:

Update the mod, and create a separate mod for the legacy version
9 (33.3%)
Not update the mod, and create a separate mod for the new version
13 (48.1%)
Update the mod, but don't create a separate mod. Users should find legacy versions using the forums
5 (18.5%)

Total Members Voted: 27

Roolo

I think it's useful for mod developers to know which alternative is preferred by the community. It would at least have helped me when Rimworld was updated to B18. A small discussion about this is already held in: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=36267.msg373527#msg373527, but it doesn't lead to a consensus, but it just contains valid arguments for both sides. In summary: option 1 has the advantage that users that update to the new version can easily keep track of what mods are also updated, but forces players that want to keep playing the legacy version for a while, have to change all their mods to legacy version mods to not lose their save. Option two works the other way around. The third option relieves the burden on modders, but requires extra effort from the users.

I hope this poll will help new mod developers in the future, and that it gives existing mod developers something they can use to support their choice (and defend it when users complain).

Feel free to motivate your vote in a comment :)


kaptain_kavern

I, on the other hand, feel that it is to the community to know which alternative is better for modders, lol.

Honestly having to maintain mods on Steam, in addition to the forum can already be a burden - If like me, you're not a Steam User at all, usually.
But if on top of that I have to maintain several workshops items for each mod, it will be a management nightmare. And will take me some valuable time I'd rather spend on improving my mods.

Sidenote: A good share of us, modders, are doing it here since way before Steam Workshop was even discussed

dburgdorf

As a user, I don't much care which way things are done; neither is particularly better or worse for me, personally, and I happily accept the fact that different modders do things differently. But as a modder, I prefer to create a new Steam item for the new version of the mod. It just seems cleaner and more organized.  And I find it less annoying to deal with the occasional, "Hey! Update this mod!" "Um, it was updated already. You can find it in my workshop," than to deal with a lot of, "Your update broke my game! Wah!" :D

EDIT: As an additional point, it's probably worth noting that while folk who have to subscribe to a new version of the mod when they upgrade to a new version of the game will never suffer more than a minor inconvenience, folk who've subscribed to a mod which is updated to a new game version to which they haven't yet updated might find themselves with a lost game, if they're playing hardcore mode and that game-breaking mod update screws up their only game save file in a manner from which they can't recover.
- Rainbeau Flambe (aka Darryl Burgdorf) -
Old. Short. Grumpy. Bearded. "Yeah, I'm a dorf."



Buy me a Dr Pepper?

Canute

As non-steam user i don't know it 100%,
but so far i understand the workshop don't got a relation between mod and game release.
When someone like to play an older rimworld version, he can't do this with mods which only 1 entry with the latest release.
Thats the only reason for new workshop entrys each Rimworld release.


Varisha

As a steam user and modder I go for "new workshop items per release". I can imagine there are many players who do not update automatically and prefer to stay with an old version if save games are not compatible or something is likely to break or so.
As i wrote my first mod i experienced that A17 version is not compatible to B18 version, so I was in need to prepare a second workshop item for players testing the unstable build already.
It is not much effort in my opinion and leaves the choice to the user. Any updates will be done only to the newest mod workshop item, in this case B18 until some ...19 is out.

Regards Vari

BlackSmokeDMax

I too use the new workshop item for a new Rimworld build. It is a bit more work for the modder, but doesn't mess with users running the previous build, especially when you release during the unstable period.

I can totally see why someone with a lot of mods would want to use the other method.

Albion

I personally opted for the update and a release of a separate legacy version. I think most users will update to the new version anyway so they will have the least amount of work.
If however a user wants to backpatch to the previous version with the beta option he is already more willing to put effort into saving his colony and will therefore more likely find and subscribe to the new legacy. At least that's my viewpoint. I can't back it with data unfortunately.
I also don't update until the new version is officially released but published a pre-release version somewhere outside of steam so people could download and use it if they want to play the unstable version.

Morrigi

I prefer no update, with a new version being released separately. Otherwise things turn into a mess where half your mods are updated, half aren't, and you have to go hunting for legacy versions because the important ones aren't updated yet.

Dingo

I'm going to point out the unwritten option, which I feel is best and have said so in several cases thus far: release only 1 version of the mod on the Workshop, always updated. The Steam mentality, coming from years of using Steam as a gamer, is that automatic updates are good. The majority of users will say "why is this not updated?" and a minority will say "can I have the old version?"

Users who are clever enough to go into the betas tab and opt into an older beta are clever enough to follow a link to your FAQ or forums thread. They should do the extra work to get the older version, not the mod author. This is especially convenient if you release on a platform like GitHub and you can just point them to the releases section there.

Roolo

Quote from: Dingo on November 20, 2017, 04:19:35 PM
I'm going to point out the unwritten option, which I feel is best and have said so in several cases thus far: release only 1 version of the mod on the Workshop, always updated. The Steam mentality, coming from years of using Steam as a gamer, is that automatic updates are good. The majority of users will say "why is this not updated?" and a minority will say "can I have the old version?"

Users who are clever enough to go into the betas tab and opt into an older beta are clever enough to follow a link to your FAQ or forums thread. They should do the extra work to get the older version, not the mod author. This is especially convenient if you release on a platform like GitHub and you can just point them to the releases section there.

I added this option to the poll to make it more fair. Hopefully there will be enough votes so that the other options don't have too much of a false start.

giogio

I am with Dingo here.

Steam(TM) tend to make sure the game is being latest version and provide no version/repository control over workshop items. Because that was how traditional games work, the concept won't change much overtime and new versions only for fix flaws.

But for RimWorld, some may want old flavor or finish an on-going game, some may want to experience new things, some may even want to switch between versions from time to time.

Actually I think the most systematical solution would be a mod manage system. Lots of mods are using Git already, and if only we have a loader/mod manager, like MO to Skyrim, we can select a specific version of the game, the loader will sync the code/files from configured locations. But that needs too much effort and regulations among so many enthusiastic individual developers, like tags for branches, version declaritions (in the Release board you can still see mix usage of A18/B18 and that only title), etc, etc. Only image the coordinates need to be done already makes me titter.

So, again, I am with Dingo here.
Every Colonist starts from Muffalo...wait, what?

RemingtonRyder

There is a bit of overhead in creating a workshop item anew for Steam Workshop. However, if that's your process as a modder, then over time it becomes just another step in that process.

I've been doing new workshop items for each new version of RimWorld for a while now, and I've yet to see anyone comment that they're annoyed by this process. Likely, only a few people are really bothered by it, some people are happy that I don't pull the rug out from under their old games, and some people are just seeing my mods for the first time, either because they're new to RimWorld or because they never found it just by casually browsing.

I don't do a lot of publicity for my mods so posting them afresh, with a squeaky new thumbnail, is the only way I'll get a lot of new people using them.

dburgdorf

Quote from: MarvinKosh on November 21, 2017, 04:16:16 AM...and some people are just seeing my mods for the first time, either because they're new to RimWorld or because they never found it just by casually browsing.

Another very valid point.  I noticed the same thing when I was posting new a17 versions of my mods to replace the a16 versions, and again this past week as I've been posting b18 versions to replace the a17 versions. A lot of users are newly becoming aware of my mods, who clearly hadn't been using them before.

Creating new versions of my mods when a new version of RimWorld comes out essentially gives me a bit of "free advertising." :D
- Rainbeau Flambe (aka Darryl Burgdorf) -
Old. Short. Grumpy. Bearded. "Yeah, I'm a dorf."



Buy me a Dr Pepper?

kaptain_kavern

This is working similar even if you just update the same item in the workshop.

exemple:

RemingtonRyder