[1.0] A RimWorld of Magic

Started by Torann, November 24, 2017, 11:17:05 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

HerrColonel

Quote from: Torann on January 24, 2018, 11:05:19 AM
Delete it.  I'm not sure how that got there, maybe I made a slip in the past and it was included in an old version.  Regardless, the only .dll that should be in the TMagic\Assemblies\ folder is the TorannMagic.dll file.
Since you told me it shouldn't be there, I was surprised to find it in your latest update too. Regardless, it's gone now. I still fail at using the spell  :-\ I made some screenshots because I'm pretty sure I used it correctly.

https://imgur.com/wDOpkgO
https://imgur.com/PIpIRp8

Here's also my logs:
https://gist.github.com/312426f5f9da1ded18acfafac02859ff
What I did was: load game, cast teleport like shown on screenies, upload logs. No error poped during the game, but the logs are still interesting.
QuoteAttempted to create a portal but threw an unknown exception - recovering and ending attempt

and here's my mod list:
https://imgur.com/HxL9jIV

Harry_Dicks

Quote from: Canute on January 24, 2018, 09:16:07 AM
You NEED an arcanist, just re-read the post 4 above you from torann.

So we still need an arcanist for portals? I thought they were just for gateways or summons? And you just build the portal like it is a building? I think I frustrate Canute with being silly  ;D

Canute

Quote from: HerrColonel on January 24, 2018, 12:46:44 PM
Here's also my logs:
https://gist.github.com/312426f5f9da1ded18acfafac02859ff
What I did was: load game, cast teleport like shown on screenies, upload logs. No error poped during the game, but the logs are still interesting.
QuoteAttempted to create a portal but threw an unknown exception - recovering and ending attempt

The log shows these "Config error in TM_Teleporter_...."
With this errors it don't work. And since you said you installed the latest jecstool i have no clue.
Since it isn't much work, just delete jecstools and TMagic folder and unzip them again, except you allways delete the mod-folder before you update a mod.

Harry_Dicks

Quote from: Torann on January 23, 2018, 11:26:04 PM
Quote from: HerrColonel on January 23, 2018, 06:04:02 PM
This update cleared all the error I had, so thanks for that.

I still didn't managed to make the mass teleport work. Now it says "portal has collapsed" and explode instantly (without throwing any error). Does someone manage to use it? I tried with and without the \Mods\TMagic\Assemblies\JecTools.dll and always with the JecTools 1.0.8.6 loaded before

I'm doing the new portal research ATM, I was hoping to use that instead. But as far as I understand I need to build the portals on both end right?
Think of teleport as a pod launcher, because it basically is, just one with modified carrying capacity and range.  It has to be used outside on flat ground for the target square and every square around it (no rocks, no trees, no people).  If the area you attempt to cast the spell on wouldn't allow a building to be put there, then it won't let the teleport to be summoned there either, and it instantly collapses instead of generating a bunch of errors.

Portals are quite different.  These are buildings that you research, construct, then activate and set a destination.  Destinations can be pretty much anywhere (inside, outside, etc), it still has to be valid ground, you can't set the destination to the middle of a mountain.  They do not pair.  You can also portal to your own map.  This could be useful to move across the map quickly to get some pawns behind a raiding party to flank them (as an example).  The most useful scenario is probably to move items and pawns across the world instantly between colonies, but if you don't have a return portal, it'll be a one way trip.
Also remember that you need a fully trained Arcane mage that has learned Gateway to activate a portal.

Pawn --> Arcane Mage --> Learns Gateway -\
                                                                  |--> Activate Portal (choose destination) --> Charge portal --> use portal
Research Portals ---------> Build Portal-------/

Canute, according to Torann's post I don't need an arcane mage to have a portal. I can just research it and then build it? Is there something I am not getting? Arcane mage = gateway = activate portal/change portal/use portal. OR you can research portals = build portal with all the same activate/change/use.

Is this incorrect?

Canute

Currently i don't play with TMagic so i am not 100% sure.
So far i understood it.
You maybe can research it and build the structure.
But only a Arcanist with the master spell can open on this stucture the portal to somewhere.
Why you don't just try it out and report back ! :-)


Toketsu

Quote from: Harry_Dicks on January 24, 2018, 06:25:56 PM
Quote from: Torann on January 23, 2018, 11:26:04 PM
Quote from: HerrColonel on January 23, 2018, 06:04:02 PM
This update cleared all the error I had, so thanks for that.

I still didn't managed to make the mass teleport work. Now it says "portal has collapsed" and explode instantly (without throwing any error). Does someone manage to use it? I tried with and without the \Mods\TMagic\Assemblies\JecTools.dll and always with the JecTools 1.0.8.6 loaded before

I'm doing the new portal research ATM, I was hoping to use that instead. But as far as I understand I need to build the portals on both end right?
Think of teleport as a pod launcher, because it basically is, just one with modified carrying capacity and range.  It has to be used outside on flat ground for the target square and every square around it (no rocks, no trees, no people).  If the area you attempt to cast the spell on wouldn't allow a building to be put there, then it won't let the teleport to be summoned there either, and it instantly collapses instead of generating a bunch of errors.

Portals are quite different.  These are buildings that you research, construct, then activate and set a destination.  Destinations can be pretty much anywhere (inside, outside, etc), it still has to be valid ground, you can't set the destination to the middle of a mountain.  They do not pair.  You can also portal to your own map.  This could be useful to move across the map quickly to get some pawns behind a raiding party to flank them (as an example).  The most useful scenario is probably to move items and pawns across the world instantly between colonies, but if you don't have a return portal, it'll be a one way trip.
Also remember that you need a fully trained Arcane mage that has learned Gateway to activate a portal.

Pawn --> Arcane Mage --> Learns Gateway -\
                                                                  |--> Activate Portal (choose destination) --> Charge portal --> use portal
Research Portals ---------> Build Portal-------/

Canute, according to Torann's post I don't need an arcane mage to have a portal. I can just research it and then build it? Is there something I am not getting? Arcane mage = gateway = activate portal/change portal/use portal. OR you can research portals = build portal with all the same activate/change/use.

Is this incorrect?

I haven't played for a while, but from what i read from posts, you need an arcane mage that knows the Gateway spell. I'm unsure if you need him whenever you want to use, or just to 'activate' the portal, but it is a fact that you need an arcane mage with that spell.

Harry_Dicks

Quote from: Toketsu on January 24, 2018, 06:50:41 PM
I haven't played for a while, but from what i read from posts, you need an arcane mage that knows the Gateway spell. I'm unsure if you need him whenever you want to use, or just to 'activate' the portal, but it is a fact that you need an arcane mage with that spell.

Ahh, I think I understand now. You need to research the portal, and have an arcane mage learn the master spell as well. And only after you have researched and learned it, can the arcane mage summon a permanent portal?

Fuck man. I wanted the arcane mage to be able to summon people to him, and also teleport himself+group to up to X amount of cells (map tiles) away. But I wanted there to also be a "permanent portal" that you can unlock through research, and just be able to build, with or without the arcane mage. I figured the arcane mage for instant spells, but then something else that you unlock through research which will stay open indefinitely. Is that what it is now, where it requires some of the arcane mage's mana to hold open a portal indefinitely?

I swear I'm not trying to make this complicated. I just haven't gotten to trying the mod yet. But it feels like the interchangeable use of portal and gateway makes things get easily mixed up. Maybe just absolute clear definitions for each, and not use each other's terminology in the description. I really need stuff like this. I would think others out there that are like me and might not catch on 100% of the time unless we have crystal clear information that isn't left open to interpretation in any more ways than one.

Torann

It's not really meant to be complicated, but it's also supposed to be difficult to get which ends up making it complicated.

Portals ARE permanent buildings, and you can do the research and construct them without a single mage.  But without the Arcane mage, it just sits there dormant.  The Arcane mage is the only one that will get the option to activate the portal at which point it's like a prioritized job where they go up to the portal and then it goes to a world map where you select the base and spot you'd like to portal to send things.  After that, you no longer 'need' the Arcane mage, as long as the portal remains active.

Portals can be charged by any mage, and any pawn (mage or muggle) can walk through a portal.

Hope that clarifies portals.

That being said, the Arcane mage master ability, ie the button you click after learning the spell, is called 'Gateway' and acts as a global, mass summon where you can summon a group of pawns/items etc right to the Arcane mage.  Completely independent of portals, but you can't activate a portal without knowing this spell.

Harry_Dicks

Alright. So anyone can build the portal, but it won't do anything until an arcane mage activates it. However, the arcane mage must first learn this portal master spell. Which also comes with learning the gateway spell. Once this portal is "activated" then it is not owned by anyone, and anyone can take a one way trip through while also hauling something. The only way the portal will ever be closed, is if any arcane mage, that has the portal spell learned, comes along and chooses to close it.

Is there a limit on portals activated per mage? Or is that where I saw they might have to dedicate mana to keep it open?

Also, the "gateway" spell, that is the instant-cast teleport/summon and is the master level arcane mage spell, is needed to be learned first. Once that is learned, the arcane mage then has the ability to also activate/close dormant "portals" that were built by anybody who has done the research.

Is it only arcane mages with the gateway spell learned, that may close portals once opened? Is this the only way they will close once opened? This portal business sounds awesome. Sorry for so many questions  :)

Torann

You have it just about right.

Quote from: Harry_DicksAlso, the "gateway" spell, that is the instant-cast teleport/summon and is the master level arcane mage spell, is needed to be learned first. Once that is learned, the arcane mage then has the ability to also activate/close dormant "portals" that were built by anybody who has done the research.
Exactly.

Think of the Arcane mage that has learned the Gateway master spell as a key to activating portals.  This Arcane mage could then go around to each colony and activate their portal.  It costs 70% mana so you'll need some recovery time, or mana pots.  Once active, the portal is able to be charged and this pawn can activate as many portals as you want.

Portals hold their own magical energy, but it doesn't generate the energy on its own, it has to be charged by a mage.  Any mage type can do this though and it drains mana from the mage to supply the portal with energy.  There's no active mana drain to keep a portal open and no pawn owns the portal, but when it's used by a pawn or used to transmit items, it consumes energy from the portal.

Also, -any- mage can close a portal.  As a fail-safe, a portal can also deactivate if it detects an invalid destination (ie the map no longer exists, or you built a building on the spot it portals to, or for whatever reason it failed to spawn something at the destination.  So it's a good idea to keep the destination clear...

ChairmanPoo

Two things:

- I can´t tell my pawns mana points.

- Undead pawns can actually fall in love and get into relationships. This is kind of... wrong wrong wrong... :o

Canute

When your got mana/stamina you can find the mana bar like all other bars too at the "Needs" Tab.
It should be the first top left.

Hmmm, undead don't mean dumb. Vampire are undead too.
But in this case they are reanimated, but since they nearly got the power of their living live, sure why not social interactions.

Harry_Dicks

Quote from: Torann on January 24, 2018, 08:37:22 PM
Once active, the portal is able to be charged and this pawn can activate as many portals as you want.

Portals hold their own magical energy, but it doesn't generate the energy on its own, it has to be charged by a mage.  Any mage type can do this though and it drains mana from the mage to supply the portal with energy.  There's no active mana drain to keep a portal open and no pawn owns the portal, but when it's used by a pawn or used to transmit items, it consumes energy from the portal.

Thank you so much for being patient with me and explaining things like I might be retarded, because I really might be retarded ;) Also, where can we see the portals "energy" that is being drained when something goes through it? Is it in the info box when you select it? Finally, if the portal gets too low on "energy," will it just not allow anything to pass through it until it is recharged? And will it still take about 70% of a mage's full mana to do a full recharge on the portal?

How much mana cost is it to recharge a portal, verses "activating" a dormant one that was constructed by anyone? And you said it is only arcane mage's that have learned the "gateway" spell, only they can "activate" a dormant portal. But *any* mage can recharge one, or close it. Because they are not owned by anyone, just a sort of neutral teleporter building/launcher.

Again, thank you for answering all of my dummy questions :)

Torann

Quote from: Harry_Dicks on January 25, 2018, 10:41:04 AM
Also, where can we see the portals "energy" that is being drained when something goes through it? Is it in the info box when you select it?
Portal energy is depicted graphically by the size of the portal (the portal itself, not the building containing the portal).

QuoteFinally, if the portal gets too low on "energy," will it just not allow anything to pass through it until it is recharged?
Correct, the options will no longer show if the portal doesn't have enough energy to perform the action (transport of items costs more than transport of a pawn)

QuoteAnd will it still take about 70% of a mage's full mana to do a full recharge on the portal?
"Activation" and "charge" are two completely separate actions.  Activation is when you designate where the portal sends things.  Charge is when a mage transfers mana into the portal to provide it with energy.

QuoteHow much mana cost is it to recharge a portal, verses "activating" a dormant one that was constructed by anyone?
70% of the Arcane mage's mana to activate a portal.
5% of the portal's energy to send a pawn.
10% of the portal's energy to send all items within the portal's stockpile zone.
1% of a mage mana => 1% portal energy.

QuoteAnd you said it is only arcane mage's that have learned the "gateway" spell, only they can "activate" a dormant portal. But *any* mage can recharge one, or close it.
Yes.

QuoteBecause they are not owned by anyone, just a sort of neutral teleporter building/launcher.
Not teleporter, that's a completely different spell with different functionality.

Happy to answer your questions.  Might be easier to just turn on dev mode and give it a try though.  ;)

RyanRim

Quote from: Torann on January 25, 2018, 12:13:52 PM

Not teleporter, that's a completely different spell with different functionality.

Happy to answer your questions.  Might be easier to just turn on dev mode and give it a try though.  ;)

Just tried in dev mode against a pack of mechanoids, was fun porting around with them with cover, although the arcane mage was quite vulnerable. Had to keep sniper ready. Honestly this mod is turning Rimworld into Garry's Mod.

✯✯✯✯✯✯✯✯✯✯✯✯✯