[1.0] A RimWorld of Magic

[Holvr]

So far I've been sticking to magic classes, so let's approach a stamina one, for a change!
This one is an RPG classic, a good old:

Rogue

Briefing: Rogues are meant to provide some unseen before utility, while having some combat function, though mostly through dirty fighting, rather than an actual prowess. Their abilities are meant to each provide multiple functions, to create a versatile, yet not overpowered class.

Passives: Bonuses to dodge and movement speed. If even possible to implement, a bonus damage with knives, daggers etc. (dunno if via hardcoding anything with "knife" or "dagger" in the name, or via adding a special menu in mod options to set what counts as a knife).

Abilities:

Hide: A visible rogue is a bad rogue, and so this is a baseline ability. It has both passive and active effects:
- Passive: The more trained the hide is, the less "attractive" the rogue is to their enemies. In short: If hostile AI has more than one targets to choose from, they're likely not to choose the rogue. Additionally, when the rogue is travelling in a caravan, their visibility is much lower than usual, and almost nonexistent when a rogue is the sole member of said caravan.
- Active (costs stamina, has cooldown): When targeted, the rogue is able to drop the aggro and force their pursuers to re-focus on a new target. In order to do that, however, the rogue MUST break a direct line of sight (so run around a corner and then use the ability, don't try it in an open field). Optionally, at the maximum level of this skill's training, the rogue can drop aggro without breaking line of sight, but I'd be careful with taking that route to avoid it being OP.

Training:

- Inconspicuous 0-3 lvls:
  0) If an enemy targets the rogue, they have 50% chance to re-roll target once. -20% caravan visibility.
  1) If an enemy targets the rogue, they have 65% chance to re-roll target once. -25% caravan visibility.
  2) If an enemy targets the rogue, they have 80% chance to re-roll target once. -30% caravan visibility.
  3) If an enemy targets the rogue, they have 95% chance to re-roll target once. -35% caravan visibility.

- Disengage 0-3 lvls:
  0) Active ability cooldown at [X]
  1) Active ability cooldown -10%
  2) Active ability cooldown -20%
  3) Active ability cooldown -30%

- Vanish 0-2 lvls:
  0) N/A
  1) After using active ability, the rogue can't be targeted by anything for 1 second.
  2) After using active ability, the rogue can't be targeted by anything for 2 seconds.


Sneak Attack: Rogues do it from behind^tm A passive boost to damage (both melee and ranged) against a creature that is not actively targetting the rogue.

Training:

- Flanking 0-3 lvls:
  0) N/A
  1) +25% melee dmg against creatures actively attacking another target. +10% ranged dmg.
  2) +50% melee dmg against creatures actively attacking another target. +20% ranged dmg.
  3) +75% melee dmg against creatures actively attacking another target. +30% ranged dmg.
(Comment: Huge leaning towards melee, so that there's high-risk high-reward in play.)

- Dirty Fighting 0-3 lvls: When cornered, rogues do anything to gain advantage. Enables "special moves". The moves aren't active abilities, instead, the rogue has a chance to do on their own.
  0) N/A
  1) Enables "sand toss" that very briefly stuns the enemy, and worsens their sight for a few seconds. Melee only.
  2) Enables "hamstring" that slows the enemy for a few seconds.
  3) Enables "cheap shot" that makes a second attack instantly, disregarding weapon cooldown. Happens more scarcely than the previous two, due to its DPS potential.



Thievery: The fuel in the tank, and the ultimate goal of being a rogue. Stealing!
It's an active ability that can be used either on the colony map, against traders and guests, or on a caravan map, against settlements.

- Colony: When used on traders, guests, or their pack animals, has a chance of stealing stuff from their inventory. Depending on implementation, it could either be random, or there could be a pop-up menu, similar to the trading one, that allows the player to choose what to steal, and possible a % chance of success.
If caught, the target's faction goodwill will drop a fair bit (that's a given), and there's a chance that the target will leave immediately, or a smaller chance that they'll demand a recompense in silver, otherwise attacking (mostly traders, since caravans usually well armed, while visitors not so much, so they should stick to being upset and leaving).

- Caravan: While a rogue is in a caravan (or rather: a sole member of a caravan, or in a caravan comprised of only the rogues) they gain a new option when right-clicking settlements: "Steal from". They'll stay at the settlement for a few hours, and generate some silver and other loot. This won't spawn the encounter map etc. instead just simulating the rogue "going around and stealing", calculating the outcome on the rogue's level.
If caught, the faction's goodwill will drop (obviously), and the rogue has a chance to escape nonetheles or be captured, in which case the faction will demand a ransom (friendly and neutral factions lean towards this) or be attacked (hostile factions lean towards this). Being attacked generates an encounter (so goodluck if your rogue is alone vs a whole village), while a ransom demand will only return your rogue (most likely partially robbed, depending on the remaining goodwill) when paid, or you could storm the settlement and free the rogue by force.

Training:

- Pickpocket 0-3 lvls: Increases the chance of successful stealing, both in-colony and while caravaneering.
  0) N/A
  1) Increases the chance of success by 10%
  2) Increases the chance of success by 20%
  3) Increases the chance of success by 30%

- Burglar 0-3 lvls: While stealing from settlements, the rogue moves from simple pickpocketing to burglary, getting into houses and stockpiles, thus unlocking new loot.
  0) Steals only silver.
  1) Can also steal gold and jade.
  2) Can also steal clothing, weapons and drugs.
  3) Can also steal valuables, like prosthetics, implants, scrolls/tomes etc.
(Note: Loot should depend on the faction type. Tribes will only have crap, pirates mostly weapons and drugs, industrials will have everything, and arcane folk will have mostly jade and magic items and scrolls, tomes etc.)

- Innocent 0-2 lvls: Based heavily on rogue's social skill. Reduces the severity of the punishment the rogue gets when they're caught.
  0) N/A
  1) Reduces the chance of the rogue being attacked.
  2) Almost eliminates the chance of the rogue being attacked, and slightly reduces the faction goodwill loss.

Other stamina classes have more skills, usually, but since the above three cover everything I want to propose for this class, I leave the rest slots to fill as needed.

As a bonus thought: When a rogue pawn comes over as a guest or in caravan, they can steal from you, so watch out!

[Areskiko]

@Torann

First I'd just like to say that i really like the mod, especially the new blood mage, and the idea of not being able to preemptively store up a bunch of blood magic. It makes you use all of his abilities and think farther than the usual 'hit one button everything dies' that some of the other classes have.

That being said I think it takes a bit too much time for the blood mage to get going. By the time my B-mage is ready to use some of the damaging abilities my other colonists have already dealt with them, and if you get a group of melee raiders that rush you the mage doesn't have time to counter.

However, I can see a great potential for synergy. Yesterday I came up with the following idea: Using ignite blood creates a blood mist (kind of like the necromancers mist of torture) where if the b-mage either walks through it or uses blood for blood on a creature that is standing in the blood mist (or positioned so that the blood mist is in between the b-mage and creature) the blood for blood mist will collect the other blood mist to give it to the caster, but this additional blood mist wont heal, rather give blood power

This is just an idea, but the overarching problem with blood mage is that the powers take a lot of time to set up, and once you do you don't get enough in return (bear in mind that I haven't tried the blood moon yet). Alternatively you could just make blood sacrifice give way more blood power, but personally I think that the best thing is giving him a kit (set of powers) that build up each other.

cast blood sacrifice, use that power to create a giant blood mist through rend and ignite blood, then use blood for blood to collect all that power and finish it all of with blood moon.

The reason i think this would be better/worth it over other classes is that it gives the blood mage longevity, especially if the mist from ignite blood reduces the cool down of all abilities (or just the three required to get it working), so if the enemy is clumped up together a different class might be better, bu if you are under a long siege/besieging another base blood mage could keep fighting for much longer.

I think that classes that have powers that build on each other well (synergises) are vastly more fun than powers that might be really powerful, but are standalone. For reference see Garuda (basically blood mage) or Nidus (the king of synergy) from Warframe.

Once again, love the mod, it's one of the mods that never go off and i would be delighted if you took my text-wall into consideration. I would also be happy do discuss this issue further/ideas for improving other classes, I don't know how to mod rimworld (although i know programming) but I am happy to assist in any way i can

[Gwaheer]

Hey, Torann!

It's incredible, how huge this mod now. Great work.

I come back to Rimworld after long break and now amazed, how much you improved this mod.

I have some questions/suggestions about old classes:

First of all - Ranger:

1. Mines is still broken? After number of uses this skill does nothing. No mine spawned. Suggestion - change it to poison arrow spawning small gas cloud on hit.
2. Animal bond  - idea is great, but in actual gameplay, my poor pet inevitably suffer brain damage or other disabling injury, if I try to use it for combat. Suggestion  - make bond spell slowly healing permanent injuries.

Second one - Gladiator:

1. We really need this "+mental break threshold" for this class? For me it's deal breaker, as melee fighter Bladedancer is much stronger and don't have mental problems. Suggestion - remove threshold modifier and -psychic sensitivity modifier to balance it out.
2. Sprint skill generally available for all fighters, maybe add something unique? For example, Shield Wall ability, making Gladiator extremely durable but slow to move and attack for period of time?

Faceless - reversal ability. I need clarification. Faceless supposed to be invulnerable for melee and bullet projectiles for ability duration?  I asking, because an Scyther just ignored it and killed my pawn with two strikes right after ability activation. Other abilities great and funny.

About magicyte growing - great addition, maybe it's too easy now. All you need is one mage with Sun Light and Draw Heat spells to get unlimited supply in any environment. Funny thing, even light not needed, magic bushes grow from self-generated light, maybe this need fixing. I love ability to grow magic bushes in plant pots, make my colonies pretty to look at night.

About magic equipment - generally, I think, item prices is too high for bonuses they give and materials needed for production.

- Robes of Archmage adding 20 000 to colony wealth?  No, thank you.
- 0.2 kg gems of Insight 4000 each from 500 magicyte, which now growing on trees, selling for full price? Feels like cheating.
- ...

Not sure it need fixing / adjusting, I personally just stay away from items I feel unbalanced for using or trading.

One last question, in stockpile configuration I spotted some amulets/rings. How do I get em?

I enjoy your MOD very much, thanks for you work. I will come back with more feedback if you like to get it.

P.S. Sorry for my English, I hope your eyes will stop bleeding soon.

[henk]

It's incredible, how huge this mod now. Great work.
[...]
About magic equipment - generally, I think, item prices is too high for bonuses they give and materials needed for production.

Agreed on both counts. The mod is great, most prices are way too high. Also, using the non-renewable gold, jade and uranium for so many constructions is a pain in the posterior.

The druid regrowth sometimes fails to show up even if you have all the ingredients. Making another seed of regrowth doesn't seem to help, but destroying all the seeds and making another will usually fix the problem. The mentoring ability, on autocast, will still go on cooldown, use mana and give the user experience even if it finds no target.

[Torann]

- Caravan: While a rogue is in a caravan (or rather: a sole member of a caravan, or in a caravan comprised of only the rogues) they gain a new option when right-clicking settlements: "Steal from".

The Rogue class has been on my list of possible classes for a very long time, but never high on the list due to (my) a general lack of interest in its playstyle and abilities, especially within RimWorld, and how easy something like steal could be exploited.  The idea of adding in some additional caravan/world map options is a good idea and adds some weight to the class, so we'll see.

This is just an idea, but the overarching problem with blood mage is that the powers take a lot of time to set up, and once you do you don't get enough in return

I've found a good strategy with BM is to activate blood sacrifice once or twice as soon as the raid event occurs to get the BM bleeding, and then they're usually at ~50-60 blood points once the fighting starts.  As long as a BM is bleeding, they generate bp, and they gain bp each tick based on the total amount they're bleeding. This strategy essentially starts a timer for the BM before they run out of blood (this i where blood for blood really helps), but it also allows them to gain bp without burning a huge amount of mana, in case they have an immediate need of it at a later point.  Investing in Pure Blood is also a good way to make management of blood points easier.

I have some questions/suggestions about old classes:

Great suggestions. Concerning the item values, was this since the last patch? - this was recently (last patch with blood mage + enchanter) reworked with the overall value of magicyte dropping and all items were priced based on resource value+craft time.  For example, the robes of the archmage, which was 20k, is now 6250.  All item values are consistent in their calculations, so if you think values are still too high, let me know.

As for the artifacts, those can be created by an enchanter.  More, craftable, artifacts to come in future updates.

[Gwaheer]

Yes, item prices look much more reasonable now, still expensive, but not insane anymore.

[Nales]

Blood Mage AI needs some work. I just had a group of traders that had a blood mage, and she repeatedly cut herself until she fell unconscious from blood loss. I rescued her, but now, well... the second she regains consciousness she cuts herself and instantly falls unconscious again. Not sure how I'm going to save her from her own stupidity! She's already lost an eye and got a scar on the other, maybe once she goes blind she'll come to her senses?
(Incidentally, she has the "Too smart" trait. Yeah, I guess her behavior is too smart for me to understand.)

Also, I'm using many other mods, but I don't think any of them is causing the issue.

[Torann]

Blood Mage AI needs some work. I just had a group of traders that had a blood mage, and she repeatedly cut herself until she fell unconscious from blood loss. I rescued her, but now, well... the second she regains consciousness she cuts herself and instantly falls unconscious again. Not sure how I'm going to save her from her own stupidity! She's already lost an eye and got a scar on the other, maybe once she goes blind she'll come to her senses?
(Incidentally, she has the "Too smart" trait. Yeah, I guess her behavior is too smart for me to understand.)

Also, I'm using many other mods, but I don't think any of them is causing the issue.

Thought I had this one fixed, but not sure I had ever tested with the AI blood mage being a trader/neutral, only with raids.  Thanks for the report.

[Holvr]

Due to the absolute lack of community input in the Gods of the Rim suggestion, I've come up with something that could be more acceptable for majority of this mod's fans. As with the previous suggestion, I've made a separate thread to avoid spamming this one: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=47576.0

[Canute]

Holvr,
maybe you should made first a basic mod to show people your idea's and skill's.
The other may give you comment's and suggestions.
Or do you hope some modder jump at your train to help you ?
I think even Torann who allready like your concept don't have the time for that.

[Holvr]

Holvr,
maybe you should made first a basic mod to show people your idea's and skill's.
The other may give you comment's and suggestions.
Or do you hope some modder jump at your train to help you ?
I think even Torann who allready like your concept don't have the time for that.

I'm aware that his time is limited, don't worry And, please, don't perceive my suggestions as demands. I spitball the ideas not to force Torann, or anyone else, into manifesting them, but rather to give them ideas they might seek. If the idea bounces off and is left in the dirt - so be it, but if some of it sticks - great!

And in the first thread (Gods of the Rim), I've come clean to Torann, stating that one of the reasons I propose it to him (besides me genuinely liking his mod) is that I'm no modder whatsoever, and if he'd like the idea enough to implement it, it'd be great. So it's not a sneaky attempt to put someone else to work for me.

[Canute]

People have alot of idea.
But the problem are the skills to manifest these idea.
Your idea's arn't that easy to implement, just look at the Cult of chutulu mod. It require some good c# skills.
And people with these skill's are pretty rare.
So until you start to mod by yourself, i fear your idea's keep idea.

[henk]

I've got an idea regarding rogues and thievery.

They don't steal items from visitors and caravans, but they acquire "stolen items" instead, which don't take anything away from NPCs. Thieves also have a skill to call in a Black Market caravan, which will buy stolen items at a moderate price (price improved with skillups), buy a number of expensive and exotic items (poor prices until improved with skillups) and randomly has some rare items to sell.

That way, you get to play a rogue without risking breaking balance.

[NatsuDragneell]

firstly i would like to thank you for your hard work creating the best Rimworld mod ever.
secondly i have something for you, and it is Bug report!
I just got a legendary pawn, with three classes at the same time (i am not even mad, that's amazing)
i am using RJW's pregnancy

[Holvr]

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[url=https://www.0zz0.com][img]http://www10.0zz0.com/2018/12/28/17/771256695.png[/img][/url]

Is that URL there really necessary, hm? Nice way to redirect people who try to enlarge the image by clicking it.