Infestation Event suggestions

[erdrik]

In general Ive never really liked the implementation of the infestation event.
I get it is suppose to make life difficult for mountain bases, but Ive always felt its implementation makes mountain living near impossible. Primarily its the sudden and unavoidable "bladed army of death" that just "pops" into a random room. To me, this is bad because it punishes established defenses and ensures immediate damage to anyone in the room not swift enough to fall back. Ive also NEVER successfully defeated a hive infestation without taking some kind of long term damage to my colonists.
(to my recollection)

That said I DO like the idea of making things difficult for mountain living, and I DO like the idea of infesting insects.
For awhile now Ive been think about how to vary the event that might improve it, but it always comes down to the above mentioned flaws being too invasive, and too immediate. So now Im thinking maybe an implementation that favors reality might work better here.

Instead of just appearing in a cave or empty room, I suggest the event MAKE a new cavern for them to appear in. Specifically one that is NOT within, but still near, the player's mountain occupying colony. The event would be described in a vague manner, and the infestation's location would NOT be revealed. The Infestation would still dig out, but would focus on digging : 1. Out of the mountain to hunt animals, or 2. towards any source of food within or around the mountain.

Instead of having the whole hive take part in the assault, the smaller bugs would be responsible for digging and hauling food items or corpses. Bigger bugs would be responsible for hunting, and dealing retribution against those that would kill fellow bugs. The entire hive can attack if the hive is hurt.

This way it is still a difficulty to mountain living, but is a persistent hidden threat until found and becomes a persistent oppressive danger if the hive is left alone. The player may even chose to just leave the hive alone in the immediate if they think they can coexist with it. Or even farm it, as some players already do now. Or its predations on the local wild life, their crops, or stored food may drive the player to try and exterminate the hive.

Overall I think the hive should still be a "from the mountain" threat, but also still an EXTERNAL threat.

Thoughts?

[freemapa]

The infestation event is a bit odd. With so many options for mountain base killing events, it seems weird to put all your eggs in the infestation basket. In general, it's weird for enemies to spawn directly onto the map. He could have just as easily made them ghosts, and it would be just a plausible.

It would make sense to have infestations inside the mountain, that inadvertently get exposed as you mine. But after it's mined, you should be good to go. After your mountain base is built, it would be much more realistic to have earthquakes or something cause cave-ins, or oxygen depletion, or flooding when it rains. All these events make more sense... but I suspect people would cry out about not being able to defend against those.

Maybe a fun fix would be to leave the infestation the way it is, but make it so the insects can't go outside (sunlight, or something, kills them). This way, when the infestation occurs, You have to make the choice of either fighting for your base, or just abandoning it and rebuilding outside. Perhaps the insects could produce one variant of insect that can survive outside, causing your base a constant annoyance until you destroy the infestation. I don't know. But this would explain why a planet with human sized insects (that reproduce quickly and are extremely dangerous) haven't taken over the entire planet already.

On a larger note, I support any decision that takes away from the ability to build huge bases and just hunker down and kill stuff. IMO, people who play this way are missing the point. I think everyone loves the first couple days of the colony - and gets bored later when their base is huge and unstoppable. I personally love it when my entire colony is nearly wiped out, and I'm forced to rebuild with just 1 or 2 colonists.

Story
I just recently took my tribal colony of 7 pawns on a rescue mission (with an armada of 12 terriers, lol). Lost all my terriers to a turret explosions except 1, who miscarried and died later that night  . 3 pawns were killed in the fight, 1 more died on the scene. I made the rescue, but the guy didn't heal before I ran out of food. I left with 3 pawns, 2 badly injured. Had to set up a brief camp on the way home in a hellish desert. 3 mad animals in a row hindered my food collection progress and then an elephant herd attacked my party. 1 pawn went down and another died almost instantly in the attack. My last pawn abandoned everyone, grabbed all the food on the map as elephants chased her and ran back home. Now I'm back to 1, and it's great!

[Arcus]

Part of the problem with the infestation event is that it doesn't just punish people who build deep into mountain bases, but anyone who builds under a thick roof, really. So either you build on completely flat terrain and completely ignore the valuable real estate under the mountains, or you go full mountain base and design everything around countering bugs.

It's also a really weird event when you compare it to other events. It's one of the few events that gives you almost no warning time and don't spawn on the edge of the map, the other being drop pod raids.

Insectoids are the only enemy type that can multiply and constantly spawn new numbers. On top of that they're extremely destructive and will utterly devastate the surrounding environment. They're the only event designed to counter mountain bases, but they've been made utterly insane to compensate.

In general I would like to see more events that threaten mountain bases so the infestations themselves can be toned down to a less ridiculous level. More limited infestations with no hives, just a few insectoids tunnelling down and dropping into your base suddenly. Earthquakes that cause thick roofs to cave in (with a bit of warning before the roof actually collapses, so your colonists can get clear).

Toxic volcanic gas leaks that can force your colonists out into the open air until the gas has dispersed. More constrained hive reproduction mechanics, with the hive actually needing to send out megascarabs to build a new hive instead of just magically spawning new ones within a certain radius, so you can at least try to contain the threat.

If nothing else, I would really like some sort of warning event (noticing spiderwebs, hearing chittering noises, finding dead bugs in the corridors, etc), so you know you have a potential infestation on your hands but you don't know where it's going to happen.

[Bolgfred]

Me for myself, I truely understand the unhappiness with the infestations. I found a suitable solution for myself, having enough coolers to set my whole colony on -50°C, which kills all infestations without a fight. This is a clean way to solve this problem, but I have to admit, that I am not very happy with this one.
I wouldn't go that way to fully redesign the event, as that's not how proper development works, or what is realistic.

Actually I'd suggest to soften the event, bringing more dynamic into it. This would mean, that the hive doesn't spawn instantly out of nothing in a colonists bed. There should be some kind of a harbinger, which announces the hive spawn, so one can react on this.
For example, when the event starts, there are single bugs spawning in several places, having a neutral behaviour. They start moving around, being able to walk through closed doors, vents and coolers.
At first they walk around, but then they come together and start building haive when there are 3 bugs on the same spot. After his is done, they dissaper, leaving a new hive behind.
By this the player can stop the hive from apearing with a good micromanagement, alias killing builder-bob-bugs. Day saved!

[JimmyAgnt007]

As probably the most prolific mountain base builder, my current colony is 60+ pawns living under a mountain, I think I have some thoughts.

Firstly, insects, such as they are, dont matter much to me.  They show up, I evac the site and put a line of melee in front with guns behind and waste them.  I have turrets all over and they are usually dead within a short while.  Now, with the size of my bases, they are usually two separate infestation sites with 2-3 hives a piece each event.  So, its 'FUN' but not a real threat, I havent lost a life to them.

Now, why bother with the mountain in the first place?  Well, shells landing was the main reason with drop pod attacks being the 2nd.  The thing is, a handfull of mortars can stop a siege quickly enough and the drop pods are more or less the same as the insects so its just a trade off.  So, as it stands, there isnt really much difference except that it gives me an edge of the map the enemy cant attack from.  But a coastal map would do the same thing unless boats are introduced.  The only real difference is that a lot of mountain means more metal and resources than an open plane.  And if you are going to spend all that effort clearing it out, why not live there.  Smoothing the stone floors is another minor advantage.  Otherwise, there really isnt a reason to 'force' people into the open, its all what the player likes.  Also, FYI, anyone building a modern fortress, does so under a mountain.  (think NORAD)

Killboxes, people have been building things to maximize killing for thousands of years, castles are made with that in mind.  I once saw a fort near Kingston with a killbox that was angled to cause ricochet from missed musket fire to hit more American invaders. So Id argue that they are totally valid tactics.  Should the AI be smarter, sure.  But I think its wrong to punish a playstyle that makes logical sense. 

So back to the topic, I do like the idea for reworking the insects, making them a more natural feeling threat, maybe even kidnapping colonists or something.  Just dont do so with the mind to punish people for having fun the wrong way.  Because, no matter what gets done, if I want a mountain fortress, I will design it to survive whatever changes happen.

[lancar]

Honestly, at this point I would be happy if the infestation would just PLEASE stop magically appearing out of thin air with no warning.

ANY kind of advance warning would make it significantly more bearable.

[OFWG]

Honestly, at this point I would be happy if the infestation would just PLEASE stop magically appearing out of thin air with no warning.

ANY kind of advance warning would make it significantly more bearable.

Yeah I agree with this. As it is, when they pop into existence I wait until I can see all the bugs then use the dev mode kill tool to destroy them. Just not any fun to deal with otherwise.