Time to leave after map mission or base attack

Started by corestandeven, December 19, 2017, 10:25:11 AM

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corestandeven

Currently the time players get to remain on a map after completing a mission or attacking a enemy base has little logic (as far as I can see).

For example, if you destroy an enemy base you get 24 hours before you have to leave, but you get much longer if you destroy a small outpost. Why? You will more than likely have injured pawns that need to be healed after a big base attack, and the bases are typically on large maps with a load of resources. So why is a base 24 hours and an outpost much longer? Makes no sense.

In addition I've just done an Incapacitated Refugee mission, rescued the pawn who joined me, but I'm given a whopping 14 days before I can leave! What possible reason do I need 14 days on a small map?

The only example where the time seems right is for Lump of Resource missions, where you are given a long time to dig up the resources and travel back and forth.

In my view the times you can spend at a site after a mission or event should be reviewed by the devs. My suggestion to easily solve it is to up all map missions or encounters should have the same time. The devs can choose a number, 7 days, 10 days, whatever, but longer than 48 hours. The exception perhaps should be if attacked/ambushed whilst traveling, where 48 hours seems reasonable to gather up supplies and move on. If the devs think the times chosen are logical, and I'd like to hear the rationale if so, then at the very minimum the 24 hour window to leave after attacking a pirate base (not an outpost) should be raised much higher than it is currently - it just isnt enough.

Also is there a config file where players can easily adjust these figures by themselves?

Snafu_RW

I expect 14 days for the refugee mission is to allow enough time for them to heal to walking status (given tribal-level unskilled medics); about the others I've no opinion
Dom 8-)

corestandeven

#2
Hmmm, 14 days to fully heal a injured refugee, even as tribal? In terms of regular injuries it will take 2 game days with herbal meds, maybe 3, for all the wounds to heal assuming no infections. If the refugee is missing a leg it might take some time to fashion a wooden leg I guess, but I doubt 14 days are needed. Compare that with 24 hours to heal all your pawns and sort out any infections after a Pirate Base attack. That vast difference makes zero sense to me.

Yoshida Keiji

There are so many things in this game that make no sense at all...

Either attacking an outpost or a bandit camp, I want the option to settle over the ruins. The only thing the game would have to do for me is to expand the given map to the size I chose at game start, most likely 400x400 for my usual choice, which means adding extra tiles to the borders and leaving the already interacting at the center.

This would allow me to use the remains of the Pirate or Tribal outpost I just attacked, so I don't have to build up an entire colony from zero but only rebuilding some segments or making modifications.

Currently, it makes no sense that if I choose to settle over the tile I just attacked, the world map tile "changes" the terrain to another randomized layout and not remain the same geography I was just on a few second before. I should be able to use the enemy base anytime I get there or if I choose to take their base for my own Faction.

Personally, the timing is stupid, because the more I stay, the more I put my "main" colony at risk for not having everybody at "home", so to me the countdown timer makes no sense either.

And of course, were I choose to settle using the ruins, I want to have the option to connect all my colonies with roads of which the design type can vary at cost so the beaten path is cheap and the highway is expensive.

Back to topic again, we should be able to stay at any map as long as we want without time limit.

Scrabbling

If you remove the time limit you need to remove the "safety" too. AFAIK you can't get raided on any temporary map nor do you get incidents.
If you leave the implementation as is and just remove the time limit it's just exploitable. If you are willing to change the implementation further just to remove a time limit that is not a big problem IMO there are a bunch of questions you have to address regarding wealth, raids, incidents etc.

For example: What should happen if you leave a temporary map? Does it disappear? Does it get saved and can be revisited? Does it continue to exist and change like a colony without colonists that isn't abandoned? If you vote for option 2 (saved and revisitable), how to you prevent exploits like transferring wealthy items there for safekeeping?

IMHO this issue is really not as easy as "just remove it".






TheMeInTeam

Removing time limit can be problematic, but maybe add a settle option onto cleared bases of full map size (that makes it permanent like colony but removes the safety).

Even without that, making the time limit longer for stuff like successful base wipe just makes sense.

corestandeven

My personal preference is just for the devs to increase the time for all maps to a reasonable figure that allows players to heal and gather resources, but is not exploitable (e.g. no time limit). 24 hours for a ex-pirate base is mad, especially when an outpost attack gives much more time.

In terms of taking over pirate bases permanently, I would like that but I do not think it works over well if you were to get to events at the same time. Having raids in both your main base and the one you just conquered would be too hard to micromanage. If there was some setting that meant that if you have an event at one base you couldnt have any at the other (until the other event has passed) then that would be a good compromise.

TheMeInTeam

Quote from: corestandeven on December 20, 2017, 11:57:52 AM
My personal preference is just for the devs to increase the time for all maps to a reasonable figure that allows players to heal and gather resources, but is not exploitable (e.g. no time limit). 24 hours for a ex-pirate base is mad, especially when an outpost attack gives much more time.

In terms of taking over pirate bases permanently, I would like that but I do not think it works over well if you were to get to events at the same time. Having raids in both your main base and the one you just conquered would be too hard to micromanage. If there was some setting that meant that if you have an event at one base you couldnt have any at the other (until the other event has passed) then that would be a good compromise.

It would be the same as if you increase colony limit and make 2 colonies right now (already available in vanilla via options).  This does increase micromanagement burden, yes.

Snafu_RW

Quote from: Scrabbling on December 20, 2017, 11:32:41 AM
If you remove the time limit you need to remove the "safety" too. AFAIK you can't get raided on any temporary map nor do you get incidents.
If you leave the implementation as is and just remove the time limit it's just exploitable. If you are willing to change the implementation further just to remove a time limit that is not a big problem IMO there are a bunch of questions you have to address regarding wealth, raids, incidents etc.
FWIW I've experienced several events (including raids/manhunter packs & even caravans) while exploiting temporary maps in A17 up to time limit; I've no idea if this has been removed in B18 but I think not: ISTR a raid occurring while I was happily mining out some components recently (during timeout ofc..)

Totally agree with your take on the time limit, however
Dom 8-)

Kryptos901

What if the hard timer was replaced by a soft timer of sorts, at which point the map reverted to a second base as in vanilla? I'm thinking something like a massive pirate raid 3-4 days after you destroy their base, as a faction would probably be sad about losing the base and want it back. Maybe have something similar with manhunter packs for non-combat events. Looter raiders for treasure event maps. It would add a logistical challenge to the battle-do you pack up quick and hope for few injuries, or do you start piling rocks into defensive lines as you clean up the inhabitants of the base, preparing for your own stand?

Something where the game doesn't force you to leave, but still nods and winks at the door. Basically a guaranteed Bad Time event at a certain point, after which the generated structures and everything would be permanently placed on the map. If you leave before the event, it goes back to being a pirate base or whatever it was before. That could lead to some interesting world lore as well, if some nearby outpost traded hands between two warring factions every few seasons.

Dashthechinchilla

Quote from: corestandeven on December 20, 2017, 08:57:47 AM
Hmmm, 14 days to fully heal a injured refugee, even as tribal? In terms of regular injuries it will take 2 game days with herbal meds, maybe 3, for all the wounds to heal assuming no infections. If the refugee is missing a leg it might take some time to fashion a wooden leg I guess, but I doubt 14 days are needed. Compare that with 24 hours to heal all your pawns and sort out any infections after a Pirate Base attack. That vast difference makes zero sense to me.
There is also the fact that the pawn won't attempt to join you until they can walk, unless you employ other measures. 

I will agree 24 hours is too short for that mission.  I wonder if it's because it's an older event.

Mday

I have not done any injured refugee mission yet, so correct me if I am wrong. I assume you can build a 2x1 room, arrest the refugee, then take him with you? In that case I suppose 2~3 days will be enough to take the refugee plus mine out the map.

corestandeven

Quote from: Mday on December 21, 2017, 03:42:04 AM
I have not done any injured refugee mission yet, so correct me if I am wrong. I assume you can build a 2x1 room, arrest the refugee, then take him with you? In that case I suppose 2~3 days will be enough to take the refugee plus mine out the map.

Well, I've only had the one occurance to go on, but in my situation my pawns arrived, there were no enemies, I rescued the pawn (not captured), healed her on the floor, built a small structure around her using wood, and she joined my group one day later. The map was plains so there was nothing of value to mine, and she recovered from all her wounds by about day 3. 

I suppose if you captured her instead she may not join you in 14 days, but you dont need to anyway as you can take prisoners with you in caravans. So it doesnt explain why the devs have given 14 days to this event.

SpaceDorf

I find the different time limits strange as well.
And I admit the techniqe I abuse most is the instant caravan creation that comes with event maps.

Btw. To be clear you can Reform the Caravan any time while the clock is ticking. There is no reason to wait until the end.

I suggest a staggered approach to the map Dilemma
After a victory you get 48h without events to get out of there.
After that you can make camp for a quadrum with a lower Chance of incidents than a colony, now you have to reform the Caravan the regular way.
After that you can make the outpost permanent or abandon.
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