Incapable of grammatical

Started by Injured Muffalo, January 26, 2018, 06:52:03 AM

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Injured Muffalo

Let us speak of some of the in game language, beginning with those skill categories. I understand from a programming point of view it is easier to make tags and abbreviations and focus on the logic. But, those days are coming to a close. Therefore, I propose the following:

Shooting/Brawling
was violent, violence

Social
was social, socializing

Animals
was animals, husbandry

Medicine
was caring, health care

Growing
was plant work, cultivation?

Artistic
was artistic, artistry or art

Intellectual
was intellectual, research

Help us out here or there could be an episode of violent!
A muffalo encountered a vimp near a patch of sweet vegetables. A struggle ensued. The muffalo gored the vimp with its horns. The vimp bit the muffalo with its beak. Finally, the vimp was bested, sending large chunks of its flesh in every direction. But the muffalo was injured. It shed a single tear.

Dargaron

You know, if you just add the implied "skill" or "acts" to the end of many of the terms you find egregious, they make perfect grammatical sense in the context they're used: for example, "incapable of violent acts."

As for some of the other ones, you are fundamentally changing the meaning of the term in question: intellectual is not only used for research qua research, but also for chemistry/drug manufacturing: IIRC, it's also used for magic in certain mods. Cultivation refers to the growing of one's own crops: it does not apply to, say, cutting down perfectly natural trees, therefore, plant work is quite a bit more valid than your suggestion.

As a side note, to be completely grammatically-correct, it would be "I understand that..."  ;)

AileTheAlien

-1
Natural languages are full of tedious rules and exceptions to no end. Just leave the programmer-friendly, grammatically-incorrect Madlibs-style phrasing in the game. There's far better things to spend effort on for better reward.

Injured Muffalo

Quote from: Dargaron on January 26, 2018, 08:51:05 AM
You know, if you just add the implied "skill" or "acts" to the end of many of the terms you find egregious, they make perfect grammatical sense in the context they're used: for example, "incapable of violent acts."

As for some of the other ones, you are fundamentally changing the meaning of the term in question: intellectual is not only used for research qua research, but also for chemistry/drug manufacturing: IIRC, it's also used for magic in certain mods. Cultivation refers to the growing of one's own crops: it does not apply to, say, cutting down perfectly natural trees, therefore, plant work is quite a bit more valid than your suggestion.

As a side note, to be completely grammatically-correct, it would be "I understand that..."  ;)

Then acts or skill can be appended. My approach is to make it make sense and do so in the least disruptive way. I didn't know about drug making/intellectual, so that one might be different.

"Grammatically correct" does not need and cannot grammatically support a hyphen.

QuoteThere's far better things to spend effort on for better reward.

Are you kidding, or incapable of intellectual? I practically did the work right here. Copy and paste it. Grammar is its own reward; it pays dividends.
A muffalo encountered a vimp near a patch of sweet vegetables. A struggle ensued. The muffalo gored the vimp with its horns. The vimp bit the muffalo with its beak. Finally, the vimp was bested, sending large chunks of its flesh in every direction. But the muffalo was injured. It shed a single tear.

Harry_Dicks

Quote from: Injured Muffalo on January 28, 2018, 04:00:43 AM
Are you kidding, or incapable of intellectual? I practically did the work right here. Copy and paste it. Grammar is its own reward; it pays dividends.

Yes, making software is so simple that you can just copy and paste forum users' suggestions right into the code! Boy, the times we live in!

Dargaron

Quote from: Injured Muffalo on January 28, 2018, 04:00:43 AM

1: Then acts or skill can be appended. My approach is to make it make sense and do so in the least disruptive way. I didn't know about drug making/intellectual, so that one might be different.

2: "Grammatically correct" does not need and cannot grammatically support a hyphen.


1: Another element to consider is ease of modding: at the moment (as I understand it), skill (and skill category) names are all set in one particular file, and they show up in that form wherever you see them in the game world, regardless of the grammatical context (for example, in the character tab, where the implied "skill" would be redundant). At the moment, (as I understand it) a modder can simply plug in a localization for their new skill and it'll work.

Again, I'm not particularly conversant in Rimworld modding (I haven't taken an assembly file apart), but just from looking at a few Defs, I think that's how it works.

As someone who's done a bit of Crusader Kings 2 modding, I can say that localization is not always as simple as you'd think: the developer can make it easy (as Paradox Interactive did), but they don't have to.

2: That was just supposed to be a quick aside, but now it is on!

From what I've been able to glean from the Oxford Dictionary's website, a hyphen is used in a compound adjective when it appears in a sentence before the noun that it is modifying. Since grammatically-correct was modifying the following "it," a hyphen should be used.

Grubfist

Quote from: Injured Muffalo on January 26, 2018, 06:52:03 AM
Medicine
was caring, health care
This one is actually very confusing for new players and really does need to be changed.

Injured Muffalo

Quote from: Harry_Dicks on January 28, 2018, 11:11:31 AM
Yes, making software is so simple that you can just copy and paste forum users' suggestions right into the code! Boy, the times we live in!

What you say would be true if I were making a suggestion on logic. I'm not. I suggested existing strings be replaced with other strings. No programming involved. If you don't know what you're talking about...

Quote from: Dargaron on January 28, 2018, 09:34:18 PM
From what I've been able to glean from the Oxford Dictionary's website, a hyphen is used in a compound adjective when it appears in a sentence before the noun that it is modifying. Since grammatically-correct was modifying the following "it," a hyphen should be used.

What they are describing is a situation in which a hyphen can be used. Not "should." A hyphen is a powerful tool to bring an unwieldly pair of words to heel, not a grammatical appendage to be inserted within any casual phrase.

And if there is a problem with syntax and mods, all the more reason to avoid that and simply choose good singular terms; perhaps those which I have suggested.  :D
A muffalo encountered a vimp near a patch of sweet vegetables. A struggle ensued. The muffalo gored the vimp with its horns. The vimp bit the muffalo with its beak. Finally, the vimp was bested, sending large chunks of its flesh in every direction. But the muffalo was injured. It shed a single tear.

Harry_Dicks

Quote from: Injured Muffalo on January 29, 2018, 07:12:07 AM
I suggested existing strings be replaced with other strings. No programming involved. If you don't know what you're talking about...

I never implied any programming was involved. I was pointing out your own naivety by saying, "just copy and paste." If you don't understand reading comprehension...

patoka

what's with all the grammar nazis in here
it's like it's 1939 when it was cool to be a one
go to https://mobile.pons.com/dict/search/mobile-results/
or some other place
go play with google translator
seems like you wouldnt enjoy the game anyway
random name generation? pah! only uneducated plebs would like that amirite
also, what's with all the dirty slang and lack of punctuation and capitalization in my post
i truly must hate human beings, especially children
i am a threat to our children for this behaviour
somebody lock me up in prison finally and throw away the key

get a life
surely you dont need to rebutcher corpses that you already half butchered if you leave the table to smoke a joint real quick?

Ramsis

Chill kiddos, you especially Patoka.
Ugh... I have SO MANY MESSES TO CLEAN UP. Oh also I slap people around who work on mods <3

"Back off man, I'm a scientist."
- Egon Stetmann


Awoo~

patoka

at least i didnt threaten the populace with "an episode of violent" (OP, last line) if my demands for correct grammar werent met
surely you dont need to rebutcher corpses that you already half butchered if you leave the table to smoke a joint real quick?

Harry_Dicks

#12
Quote from: patoka on January 29, 2018, 05:21:01 PM
at least i didnt threaten the populace with "an episode of violent" (OP, last line) if my demands for correct grammar werent met

Don't twist people's words. The OP was obviously being snarky and using the game's improper grammar to make a point. You are further making yourself look like an ass by trying to throw people under the bus for something they did not say nor mean.

patoka

#13
Quote from: Harry_Dicks on January 29, 2018, 05:34:15 PM
Quote from: patoka on January 29, 2018, 05:21:01 PM
at least i didnt threaten the populace with "an episode of violent" (OP, last line) if my demands for correct grammar werent met

Don't twist people's words. The OP was obviously being snarky and using the game's improper grammar to make a point. You are further making yourself look like an ass by trying to throw people under the bus for something they did not say nor mean.
i didnt twist any words. i quoted him. if you want to make me look bad, at least say i took his words out of context. which i did. still doesnt change the fact the a dank meme containing a threat isnt treated the same way as a one of the oldest memes out there. heck you guys seem to go out of your way to take it literally and condemn me for it. (it was used on the usenet in 1991 already and has been included in the urban dictionary as early as 2003)

but we're getting off topic anyway.
here's the content:
even a multi billionaire company like google cant make a program that consistently speaks proper english. how is ludeon supposed to make one? it wasnt their aim anyway. they wanted to make a good game, which they did. as long as we dont have to read stuff like "all your base are belong to us" it wont ruin immersion.

on another note, i dont quite understand the table in the OP anyway.
-how is "incapable of violence" worse than "incapable of brawling/shooting"? it is longer, has special characters and is just as understandable.
-then two that would stay the same? (no seriously i dont get it) [social and animals is what i meant]
-health?...care? wtf, what does social insurance have anything to do with rimworld; is this a mod?
-(the rest was already commented on)

to conclude, it is highly unclear to me how this list of expressions in the OP was supposed to be implemented into any kind of code, especially how all this was even meant.
but to top it off the op added following (part of a) comment:
QuoteAre you kidding, or incapable of intellectual? I practically did the work right here. Copy and paste it. Grammar is its own reward; it pays dividends
so if you're going to feel "slighted" off of my "abrasive"ness (iykwim), why not by this direct insult? ("are you[...]incapable of intellectual?") seriously, it is nothing less than that, plus a disgruntled comment on the hypothetic laziness or ineptitude of the programmers (which left a particularly sour taste in my mouth) or just general disregard on the it-men and -women behind this project. ("i practically did all the work here. copy and paste it") to top it off, he added a comment on how we should be happy about how he practically wants to force ludeon to implement his changes ("grammar is its own reward" and "or there could be an episode of violent") and a cryptic message. ("[grammar] pays dividends")

funny thing is, you dont even need to justify his outright childish, immature and spoilt seeming comment, because you yourself reacted accordingly already with following comment:
QuoteYes, making software is so simple that you can just copy and paste forum users' suggestions right into the code! Boy, the times we live in!
, rightly putting him in his place.
i dont like to directly insult people, so i let you do it instead:
QuoteDon't twist people's words. [patoka/OP] was obviously being snarky and using [memes] to make a point. You are further making yourself look like [someone below me] by trying to throw people under the bus for something they did not say nor mean.
notice, how ironic you sound?

and just so that we dont misunderstand eachother, i'll explain another meme i used there. it is well established and aswell on urban dictionary since 2003:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Get+a+life
notice how it is also a "self-diss"? interesting, isnt it? i went out of my way of not directly insulting anybody. i also use memes to make a point. i use self deprication as humour. i must really be a vile creature. i probably really DID mean that the op was responsible for the deaths of millions of civilians and dozens of millions of soldiers.

anyway. out of fear that i might start repeating myself (which is a much more grave mistake in my book than grammatical ones) i'll recapitulate:

TL;DR:
1) op using a meme he just invented is not being interpreted as threat of violence.
2) "ass" using well established meme is interpreted literally and as a personal attack towards the op, his friends and opponents (in an argument)

EDIT: i had to edit a bit because i wrote it on my phone. and yes, even grammatical errors. i hope it is more understandable now.
surely you dont need to rebutcher corpses that you already half butchered if you leave the table to smoke a joint real quick?

Harry_Dicks

Quote from: patoka on January 29, 2018, 07:36:18 PM
i didnt twist any words. i quoted him. if you want to make me look bad, at least say i took his words out of context. which i did.

Oh semantics! You think you can call out the OP for "making a threat with a dank meme" and twist his words, hoping that no one can tell what you are doing. "Twist any words," or, "took his words out of context." Whatever way you want to try and explain this to yourself, you are now not only being dishonest with everyone to whom you are relaying the OP's words "out of context," but also being dishonest to yourself because you know that was not what he meant. And all of this was done as an EXCUSE for YOUR actions once a moderator comes in here and tells people to cool it. Way to make yourself look like a schoolyard child, "but WHATABOUTISM! Waaaah!"

Quote from: patoka on January 29, 2018, 07:36:18 PM
still doesnt change the fact the a dank meme containing a threat isnt treates the same way as a one of the oldest memes out there. heck you guys seem to go out of your way to take it literally and condemn me for it. (it was used on the usenet in 1991 already and has been included in the urban dictionary as early as 2003)

You are literally the only one here who has said anything about this, no one else gives two shits.

Quote from: patoka on January 29, 2018, 07:36:18 PM
health?...care? wtf, what does social insurance have anything to do with rimworld; is this a mod?

What in the hell are you even talking about?

Quote from: patoka on January 29, 2018, 07:36:18 PM
and just so that we dont misunderstand eachother, i'll explain another meme i used there. it is well established and aswell on urban dictionary since 2003:

I am honestly laughing my ass off at you. Not out of disrespect, but the fact that I cannot believe that someone is using MEMES to explain their position in an INTERNET DEBATE. I don't even know where to begin... I mean no offense against you, and I know I can come across as it myself a lot, but I think you are very immature and act very poorly with how you converse with others on here. I also think you are brash, disrespectful, condescending, and you act as if anything you say should be a given, and honestly, I have no desire to converse with you any further. I also think most of your ideas are shit. Goodbye.