Alpha4f difficulty

[nuschler22]

This game at this difficulty level (basic Cassandra) is way too frustrating.  I absolutely can't stand that this AI will stop at nothing to kill off your colony.  I'm about done with the game. 

I don't understand the purpose of the game, I suppose.  Day 97 and the game is over because I get hordes of raiders and insane animals?  I haven't researched half of the items.  I haven't built half the things I want to build.  I don't have time to repair yet alone build anything between events.  And this is with multiple reloads of my saves.

I hope this gets changed.  This is supposed to be a game where you build your colony.  Not inevitably die.  This game has gone the wrong direction and lost me if that's where we are headed.

Just for shits and giggles, I played a game without messing with my work priorities (everybody had everything, left on "Auto Priorities"), and I was able to finish all my research by day 86.

I suspect that you are overreaching yourself.  You only need 15 squares of crops per colonist;  each colonist wants one 5x6 bedroom;  you only need one of each production facility.  And your initial three colonists don't even need that for the first week or two.

And if the "get off-planet before the natives eat you" thesis is still too much for you, don't play on Cassandra Classic.  That's what Phoebe Friendly is for.

What a waste of message you just wrote.

[nuschler22]

This game at this difficulty level (basic Cassandra) is way too frustrating.  I absolutely can't stand that this AI will stop at nothing to kill off your colony.  I'm about done with the game. 

I don't understand the purpose of the game, I suppose.  Day 97 and the game is over because I get hordes of raiders and insane animals?  I haven't researched half of the items.  I haven't built half the things I want to build.  I don't have time to repair yet alone build anything between events.  And this is with multiple reloads of my saves.

I hope this gets changed.  This is supposed to be a game where you build your colony.  Not inevitably die.  This game has gone the wrong direction and lost me if that's where we are headed.

As has been said elsewhere in the thread, there's no "end" in the current version of the game, which is why the game inevitably kills you in the current version. Tynan replied a few posts ago that he hopes to get the "end" of the game (putting together a ship to escape the planet) into the next version of the game (or the one after that). After that, I suspect the way the game works will change quite significantly.

At the moment, though, the game kills you after a relatively short period of time to encourage you to begin a new colony so you can try and experiment with new strategies.

Well, I suppose he shouldn't have asked how difficult people are finding it then, now should he?

That IS the point of this thread, correct? 

I understand the desire to defend everything about this game, but if he's asking for opinions then let people have their opinons.  Geesh.

[Pirx Danford]

Well, I suppose he shouldn't have asked how difficult people are finding it then, now should he?

That IS the point of this thread, correct? 

I understand the desire to defend everything about this game, but if he's asking for opinions then let people have their opinons.  Geesh.

Everybody calm down lol

I think its very temptating to defend the game when someone gives a statement like "This game has gone the wrong direction and lost me if that's where we are headed."
In my opinion its a very harsh statement, especially within a thread by the game developer to ask about just that topic and signaling to be open to suggestions for change.

Such openness is rare and it would be sad if its rewarded by unnecessary harsh- or rudeness.

So... lets all calm down a bit and talk about the difficulty and how to improve the gaming experience?

[Tynan]

Let's not write angry Internet messages to each other. It never works out well.

Duskprowler: This is actually almost exactly how Cassandra works now, with the exception that raids tend to go until you're dead instead of simply stealing things. I'm hoping to do a thievery behaviour for A5 so raids can be dangerous without always being so deadly.

There are difficulty spikes and randomness in the current Cassandra model. For example, she's supposed to tune down drop-in raids but because of a bug I think she doesn't. This makes these rather deadly. Based on the shape of the vote results (e.g. not a curve, but irregular) I suspect that people are voting "it's too hard" because of a small set of single frustrating experiences that certain players have. Like seemingly-unstoppable animal assaults or randomly overpowered drop-in raids. I can solve these case by case. The hard part is just working out what they are...

A5 will be better balanced and if I can get the endgame in, it will even get a reference point around which to balance. Since now people will know "hard" means "hard to do the endgame" instead of "hard to do... something...".

[Ruin]

Even if nothing changes, I still love this game.  It is still a darn Alpha and I feel like I got more enjoyment for my $30 than many formally released games.  But, I think that the issue here might be all about play style and expectations.  Perhaps different storytellers can make it a fit for more people.  If some like wealth and some like strength, it sounds like two story tellers to me.  The really interesting question (to me at least) that Tynan posed is how do you construct the metric to determine how many points should be thrown at the colony next?  For example:

* Should wounded colonists be consider fractional strength? (e.g. a half health colonist is only 0.5 in the calculation)
* There are different types of turrets in the base game as a function of research.  Even more can be added via mods.  Should each turret type have its own strength value (instead of just 0.4 per turret)?  This would also enable mod developers to build a more (or less) powerful turret and have the AI adjust accordingly.  Even in the base game, an upgraded turret should be slightly more strong than a vanilla one.
* Should there be a multiplier for different item and building types based on wealth? (Maybe there already is?)
* It there a way other than wealth, strength and time to measure a colony?
* Should research figure into the equation?
* Would a hybrid of wealth and strength work better?

Tynan, would you mind sharing the wealth formula that the game uses to compute item and building wealth?

[Tynan]

Tynan, would you mind sharing the wealth formula that the game uses to compute item and building wealth?

Sure, it just counts up the base purchase value of everything. For buildings, it takes the total base purchase value of their building materials.

[Aenir]

Dwarf Fortress does bring greater attacks if you have greater wealth. That's why the enemies are there - to steal your stuff.

True and it makes sense to increase the attackers strength with colony size. But DF will also make new dwarfs join your colony based on how rich you are. This leads to an interesting balance of getting enough new dwarfs to recruit soldiers and stronger opposition.

In RimWorld you got this 10-12 colonist cap. The trouble is the only way to compensate for lack of more fighters is to build turrets once you reach the cap. And the only way to keep the upper hand in the "more turrets, more raiders" spiral is to build a silly amount of turrets.

I think, in general, this is the heart of the problem.  There's no advantage to amassing wealth, as it brings you greater danger but not more colonists to combat that danger.

That and armies of 25 squirrels.  I had a boomrat event; at least those set each other on fire.  That was easier to deal with (and by that I mean only half of my colonists died instead of all).

[sparda666]

against big muffalo swarms, keep yourself prepared with a U shaped wall and start building a line of buitcher tables to close the cirlce, just to get the materials there but not enough to trigger unit collision. when the swarm triggers, draft everyone inside your bunker and then complete the construction.

[linkxsc]

Sp with some !!science!! Ive been working a couple forts with the express purpose of keeping my value low. 7 colonists on day 60 or so. Total value owned is only ~5000 this is done by building small rooms. Using single doors to access multiple rooms. I havent been massively stockpiling food and mats and dont have a ton of batteries.

So far im on my 4th raid and theyre still only sending 2 raiders (as opposed to other colonies which were seeing 5 and 6 raiders by now)
Just curious if anyone else has played a... poorer colony out for 100 or more days and experience low raider amounts. Its only in my colonies when i start putting down mass carpeting and expanding everyones rooms that i start seeing jumps in raider numbers

[Col_Jessep]

Just curious if anyone else has played a... poorer colony out for 100 or more days and experience low raider amounts. Its only in my colonies when i start putting down mass carpeting and expanding everyones rooms that i start seeing jumps in raider numbers

Yes, I try to kept my test colony "poor" on purpose. It was very easy until day 100 when Cassandra dropped 3 Centipedes into the middle of my base that attacked immediately. I was lucky to have everybody healthy and the Centipedes dropped into my second killbox. Made it out with 2 incapacitated colonist but that was mostly luck. I got two strong raider forces shortly after and started losing people.

It really bugs me that having a poor colony is the better strategy. Having a rich colony with lots of food, space and silver should attract more colonists to offset the difficulty imo.

[Tynan]

Just curious if anyone else has played a... poorer colony out for 100 or more days and experience low raider amounts. Its only in my colonies when i start putting down mass carpeting and expanding everyones rooms that i start seeing jumps in raider numbers

Yes, I try to kept my test colony "poor" on purpose. It was very easy until day 100 when Cassandra dropped 3 Centipedes into the middle of my base that attacked immediately. I was lucky to have everybody healthy and the Centipedes dropped into my second killbox. Made it out with 2 incapacitated colonist but that was mostly luck. I got two strong raider forces shortly after and started losing people.

It really bugs me that having a poor colony is the better strategy. Having a rich colony with lots of food, space and silver should attract more colonists to offset the difficulty imo.

I'm hoping this will seem different once the shipbuilding endgame is in, since you won't be able to build the ship unless you build up your economy. We'll have to see.

It also depends where you set your standard of difficulty. It's akin to playing an FPS and just never leaving the first level. Sure, you survive longer, but you're not making any progress. Same with deliberately retarding your own economic development in RimWorld. The point of the game, I hope, is to make a rich awesome colony with happy colonists.

[Col_Jessep]

It also depends where you set your standard of difficulty.

I tend to play my XCOM on Classic Ironman. I'm okay with a real challenge but I'm not insane or a masochist (Impossible difficulty in XCOM).

Tough is fine as long as I don't get a certain death sentence on day 100+. More than 10 colonists are always welcome too... =3

[linkxsc]

^ sry not quoting my phone hates it.

I havent been retarding my economy. At all times i have money onhand to buy about anything id need. And all of my colonists have m24s or r4s or other higher end weapons. I just dont build excessive bases because it gets you roflstomped.


On a side note. How exactly will the ship work out. Have to research the parts and build it section by section? Also will the day 100 difficulty jump still happen when we have a winning goal?

All in all the difficulty isnt bad. And in some cases (keeping your colony poor to force raider numbers down) downright easy. Its just around d100 when raider groups start doubling in size and coming daily, that it starts getting hard.

[sparda666]

It appears that the current wealth formula highly encourages building your base in the side of a mountain (no walls, smooth stone floors are  0 value). this should highly devalue the worth of your colony while not affecting your "progress." Those who are having a lot of difficulty could attempt this strategy.

Tynan, does the wealth calculation also take into account hoarded materials within your home zone or stockpiles (however, tracking wealth by stockpile is exploitable because you can delete the stockpile after hauling)

[Tynan]

Tynan, does the wealth calculation also take into account hoarded materials within your home zone or stockpiles (however, tracking wealth by stockpile is exploitable because you can delete the stockpile after hauling)

Yes. Which means that if you really want to try to exploit the game, you definitely can.