Killboxes too effective?

[Shurp]

I recently decided to try to get away from my usual habit of stuffing turrets into killboxes and instead installed a mod which increases firepower so that 12 pawns can throw enough ammo downrange to chew through tribal hordes effectively.  But I discovered an unfortunate side effect of this.  Pirates carrying all sorts of firepower (the mod gives them good guns too) never get around to shooting back.  They pour into the killbox, charge into the bullets, and die too, rather than standing and shooting.

Strangely this leaves me in an awkward position.  Playing with vanilla weapons and no turrets just means my poor pawns will get overrun.  (I could design a base with fallback positions and play door games and such but that's a lot of micromanagement).  Playing with turrets is a huge material investment (gobs of steel, lots of components, etc.).  And playing without killboxes... well... I'm not sure how I would handle a squad of pirates with advanced weaponry...

So this post was originally going to be a complaint about the AI not responding to a killbox effectively ("Hey, don't just run in, blast a few walls down and make positions to fire from!") but now I'm not sure what I'm trying to say

[wwWraith]

My favorite defense strategy is the outer walls with embrasures (there are several mods implementing them with slight differences) without turrets or traps. I think it's effective, realistic (people used it from ancient time) and still has some challenge remained so I feel it as most balanced for me.

[Jibbles]

As a player who doesn't use turrets all that much... It would be cool to see more types of turrets and of course more types of enemies to make those turrets appropriate.  I guess it's too much work to make the AI a bit smarter at handling different kinds of guns and turrets?  Maybe that is why we only have one type in vanilla. The lack of options in the security tab always seemed odd to me.

^{Before I get linked up, I know about the mods that add turrets or more security options.}

[Shurp]

Can the vanilla game engine handle increasing the ranges to something more realistic?  I know Combat Realism does this already, but it does a lot of other things too that are just excessive.  I was thinking more in the sense of just increasing rifle ranges to 100 or so.

If this did work, it would eliminate the need for a perimeter wall / killbox setup.  My colonists could sit behind sandbags and wall gaps (==#==) and be able to return fire across an open field at scythers instead of getting plinked to death.  A large open field would afford raiders *some* cover to shoot back from, while tribals would get appropriately massacred as they try to close the distance.

I think I'll give this a try... increasing engagement range may be just the thing to fix Rimworld combat.

[TheMeInTeam]

They're so "effective" that I'm phasing out my usage of non-colonist killboxes in the name of resource efficiency because I can consistently achieve an equal or better result to killboxes with nothing but walls, a corridor into the base, and a couple boxes outside the base :p.

In other words no, they're not even the most resource-efficient means to an end.  Once your micro hits a certain level, they are almost strictly underpowered in terms of cost : benefit.

The only time I regret not making them is against the post B18 mech ships.  Mechs are too quick to run all over the place and be a pain, before you get EMP grenades/mortars to lock them down the micro vs them, while consistent, is awful.

[Shurp]

That's odd; ship parts is the one event that I don't need a killbox at all for.  I do build some walls for my riflemen to hide behind and take potshots at the mechs while they spam ammo all over the place.  Usually I can take them down without any injuries at all.

BTW, funneling all the attackers into a kill corridor is just the narrow version of the killbox.

[Dashthechinchilla]

I have seen some wall-less methods, but I like my kill boxes. Look at some of Aavaks play throughs, he is my favorite.

Normally end game my killboxes see little to no action. They get replaced by remote turret point defense to slow the enemy down for snipers, mortars, and animal hordes.

[TheMeInTeam]

That's odd; ship parts is the one event that I don't need a killbox at all for.  I do build some walls for my riflemen to hide behind and take potshots at the mechs while they spam ammo all over the place.  Usually I can take them down without any injuries at all.

BTW, funneling all the attackers into a kill corridor is just the narrow version of the killbox.

Any basis you'd have for a corridor with doors at the end being a killbox would necessarily imply that you're building killboxes on the spot for mechs :p.

I don't like risking my pawns to RNG on extreme given alternatives.  There's a lot of firepower on both sides and the law of averages will catch up eventually.

[Shurp]

More of a kill fence for the mechs than a kill box... but yes, the play style is much the same.  I'm just taking advantage of the fact that they'll happily mill around in the open next to the ship part instead of running for cover or doing something else useful.

I'm hoping increasing weapon ranging does the trick... but first I have to get the motivation to mod it.  Hmmm, I think there are some patch functions which will allow me to set the range of *every* weapon with a single entry, right?

[OopsLoops]

Recently, I am trying a circuited defense corridor.

Please visit this site. This is a tourist information page of Himeji Castle (a famous old castle in Japan)
http://www.city.himeji.lg.jp/guide/castle/enjoy.html

Many little halls is arranged surrounding like a circuit. Even at RimWorld, make opportunities to attack enemies from behind.

As long as I try, If I open the door only 1 route, I can successfully guide the enemy. My problem is the size of hall now. However, the tunnel raid is different. They are stick to destruction the door, with a strange passion... hey, it is open...Dont throw grenades...its kept open...

[dkmoo]

Things that can shoot over walls, and pawns that can climb over walls.

that'll make defense a lot more interesting than killboxes. (and more realistic)

[Shurp]

So... something doesn't seem right in my latest game.  I built my usual killbox, put some turrets and pawns in it, and... the raiders pour in and refuse to shoot back.  They just charge my colonists and try to beat them with sniper rifles and rocket launchers instead of shooting at me.  Is this common behavior now?  Did I break something with a mod?  Or is there just such an absence of cover that they're not even trying to stand and shoot back?

I wonder if I need to put in sandbags for the pirates to hide behind... I feel stupid helping the AI out, but if the AI can't figure out how to shoot back on its own what else can I do?

[Jibbles]

There's some Ai quirks in b18.

[Shurp]

Yes, but I hadn't noticed this previously, only in my most recent game... hmmm, then again, my prior B18 game didn't have a very good killbox so it was easy for attackers to find shooting points. 

I hope the AI is fixed on the release version.