War mask requires too much wood (50 units)

[Boston]

Pretty much. For some reason, Tynan has this idea that Tribals don't know what a goddamn jacket and trousers are.

In Europe, clothing like trousers, jackets, shirts and the like have been made from wool and linen and hemp from AT LEAST the Bronze Age, and almost certainly earlier.

None of this nonsense about Tribals having to research "complex clothing" (snort).

Tribal technologies are really weird, to put it politely.

The tribes in RW are generally pre-bronze age. Their tech level is even named "neolithic". You'll note that the native people in America and Australia also lacked metalworking technology - not even bronze.

Heck, even medieval Europeans didn't usually wear anything as complex as a T-shirt and pants.

Anyway, about the OP, I've rebalanced a ton of things, including the production cost of war masks. I think it's 20 material now, IIRC.

-facepalm-

Tynan, Mesoamericans and Native North Americans had metalworking. One of the major reasons the Spanish invaded Mesoamerica was because they had massive gold and silver reserves.

Mesoamericans tended to use metal for decorative and votive objects instead of tools, but they indeed had copper, silver and gold-working skills. The Tarascans (enemies of the Aztecs) even had bronze. The Inca in South America were well into their own little Bronze Age when the Spanish arrived, with well-developed bronze weapons and armor.

In North America, both Pacific Coast natives and tribes all up and down the Missisippi River made use of copper, in 3000 BC. Most of the copper was mined in the Great Lakes region.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallurgy_in_pre-Columbian_America
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Copper_Complex

"Heck, even medieval Europeans didnt wear anything as complex as a T-shirt and pants"

What?

....Tynan, what are braccae? What are tunics? Hell, if you want to be technical, the modern T-shirt is a descendant of the tunic, being a simple shirt that is pulled over the head. Not going to mention that medieval Europeans had jackets, hoods, capes, aka everything we have today.

As a final addendum, the weaving of cloth (and therefore presumably the wearing of cloth) has been found to be at least 9000 years old, with evidence pointing back to about 27,000 years, during the Paleolithic. Neolithic cultures in China were weaving hemp and silk since about 3500 BC. Wool working has been discovered to be around since 2000 BC. Cotton and alpaca/llama wool has been woven in the Americas since about 4000 BC.


And all of that is just stuff we have found in the archaeological record. Anthropoligists think the concepts have been around for far longer than that, we just have evidence for it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weaving

Finally, i will just add this: the tribals in Rimworld are not discovering these technologies, concepts and materials in a vaccum. They live in a world whre there is tool-quality steel available from the side of cliff-faces the planet over. While they might not know to build a bloomery to smelt metal from raw ore..... They dont have to.

Finally:

1) brewing beer is a Neolithic era technology in real life. Some, not all,but some anthropologists think that the Neolithic Revolution (aka the spread of agriculture) wasnt undertaken tonprovide food per se,but to provide grain for beer making

2) the main intended effect for beer historically has not been intoxication, but as a means to preserve grain-based calories and to make water safe to drink. Intoxication was a happy and welcomed side effect.

3) hops have only been used sincd the 9th century AD, and was mainly used as a preservative. Before thatb most beer was ale, and used gruit as a flavoring.

Just saying. I mean no offense.

[Tynan]

Gold working is much simpler than bronze, which is why working gold does not signal a bronze age. Yes it's technically "metalworking", but you know I meant actual utility metals smelted on a meaningful scale, not just cold-hammering gold from rocks.

As you noted, there was no significant scale metal use in America pre-1500. In Central America it was also very limited, but that's not the area I was referring to anyway.

Medieval tunics worn by normal people were much simpler than modern pants/T-shirt, with much less precise fit. (Nobility is something else, of course.)

Simply weaving cloth is not what "complex clothing" refers to in the game; all factions can produce cloth without research.

Not sure why you're talking about beer; I didn't mention it. Anyway, beer is marked as neolithic in RimWorld, because it is neolithic in real life.

[Ser Kitteh]

Tynan, in the past I made a thread detailing how silly it was you can't wear both tribalwear and a vest silmutaneously? Is this changed for 1.0?

[TheMeInTeam]

The tribes in RW are generally pre-bronze age. Their tech level is even named "neolithic". You'll note that the native people in America and Australia also lacked metalworking technology - not even bronze.

Heck, even medieval Europeans didn't usually wear anything as complex as a T-shirt and pants.

Anyway, about the OP, I've rebalanced a ton of things, including the production cost of war masks. I think it's 20 material now, IIRC.

Maybe player tribes, but AI tribes are clearly not strictly neolithic, as they are packing steel longswords and spears.  Steel longswords are well past the classical Roman empire and do require research in the game.

More strangely, it's hard to believe tribes can build cabinets, but not beds...tool cases but not a hat.  More importantly when it comes to clothing, tribes in the game have nothing that insulates against heat/cold, in contrast to the fact that populations lived in cold regions in neolithic periods.  In-game, tribes raid with parkas...perhaps they trade for these, but if that's an internally consistent explanation then there's no reason they're constrained from having firearms etc.

[Boston]

Or the fact that crafting spears requires the "Long Blades" research.

Spears. A 400,000 year old weapon, that itsnt even confined to humans!

According to the game, a pointy bit on a stick is as complicated aa an arming sword.

Color me speechless.

[Ukas]

This game is Rimworld, not Sid Meier's Civilization. Just use your creativity and deal with its quirks and challenges, it's more fun that way.

[Klitri]

While we're at it the war mask should be able to communicate with the space ships when they pass by if it's made out of plasteel or steel and also maybe let's adjust the texture to be animated so that when you change the material it has different effects like the wood it just molds over time and the plasteel should make sparkly kind of twinkles when they blink OH you should make pawns be able to blink it doesn't make sense that the water has animations and the grass but people don't blink it just makes no sense..!!!
. . .
or it could just be left the way it (fantastically) is.

[TheMeInTeam]

This game is Rimworld, not Sid Meier's Civilization. Just use your creativity and deal with its quirks and challenges, it's more fun that way.

Rimworld is a good game.  Sometimes those quirks don't add anything or detract from it.  There's no reason they need to stay the same.

[Bozobub]

While we're at it the war mask should be able to communicate with the space ships when they pass by if it's made out of plasteel or steel and also maybe let's adjust the texture to be animated so that when you change the material it has different effects like the wood it just molds over time and the plasteel should make sparkly kind of twinkles when they blink OH you should make pawns be able to blink it doesn't make sense that the water has animations and the grass but people don't blink it just makes no sense..!!!
. . .
or it could just be left the way it (fantastically) is.

a)  The change asked for wasn't outrageous at all.  What, exactly, are you on about?

b)  Obviously, your tastes do not necessarily reflect the tastes of others.

Snark fail.