A Question on Skill Degradation

[ITypedThis]

Colonist's skill levels lose experience over time. I think I once read that Tynan did this to slow the level progression of colonists. But what I know, is can this experience degradation decrease the actual skill level itself?

For example, X colonist hasn't shot anyone for a long time, ever since he leveled his shooting skill from 15 to 16. Over a long enough time, would his skill level decrease back down to level 15, or would it stay at level 16 forever?

And if so, how far will it go? And when does it start? How fast can it go?

Thanks.

[UrbanBourbon]

- You CAN lose levels
- A skill degrades faster the higher it is. That is to say, a lvl 18 skill loses XP faster than a lvl 12 skill. But keep in mind, whole levels can contain a lot of XP, especially the higher you go in skill level number, which means the loss of WHOLE levels is more or less steady, while the XP loss varies per level.
- Skill degradation kicks in at the start of skill lvl 10 and it will drag the skill level down to 9, right at the limit of 9 and 10.
- In Alpha 3F, skills that hit lvl 20, would basically stick at 20, neutralizing the skill degradation, due to a bug. I assume it's corrected now.

[harley9699]

Wouldn't it be more logical if 1) the more they use the skill, the higher it would go and 2) if they never used a skill, then it would degrade?

[ITypedThis]

- You CAN lose levels
- A skill degrades faster the higher it is. That is to say, a lvl 18 skill loses XP faster than a lvl 12 skill. But keep in mind, whole levels can contain a lot of XP, especially the higher you go in skill level number, which means the loss of WHOLE levels is more or less steady, while the XP loss varies per level.
- Skill degradation kicks in at the start of skill lvl 10 and it will drag the skill level down to 9, right at the limit of 9 and 10.
- In Alpha 3F, skills that hit lvl 20, would basically stick at 20, neutralizing the skill degradation, due to a bug. I assume it's corrected now.

Ah, thank you. Though I can't say I'm not disappointed by the answer.

I agree with Tynan's decisions and the structure of the degradations, just not with his decision to have skill levels decrease as well, though at least not past 9/10. It makes me feel like my colonists are striving for a goal that is almost always out of reach. And if they ever manage to reach said goal, it will just slip out of their hands.

I also think that if colonist's skill levels must decrease, it shouldn't decrease past their "natural" level. For example, X colonist's backstory has given him a level 15 melee skill to start. From the moment he was "created" his skill would therefor be decreasing, with little to no way of ever raising it back without threatening X colonist's health. Because of this then, his "natural" skill is wasted, as it is largely just going to waste away to level 9/10 without any hope of restoration. Just my thought on the matter, anyway.

[ITypedThis]

Wouldn't it be more logical if 1) the more they use the skill, the higher it would go and 2) if they never used a skill, then it would degrade?

Yes, I suppose it would be. But if you built birdhouses all day for 200 days in a row, and you took a couple of weeks off, would it be logical that you could no longer build birdhouses near as good as you used to be able to? Even after a few days of building them?

[harley9699]

Yes, logical. During your time off, your Birdhouse skill would decrease. 
It was just a thought.

[ITypedThis]

Yes, logical. During your time off, your Birdhouse skill would decrease. 
It was just a thought.

Yes, but would your birdhouse skill decrease so much that even after a few days of doing again there would still be a noticeable different in the quality of your birdhouses?

[harley9699]

Great question. Then how many is a few? If you took 10 days off, probably not much of a difference. What would happen if you took the same 200 off though, after it's maxed out from the first 200? So, 200 birdhouses, then 0---but 200 days of Iguana Juicing? They probably wouldn't switch, that would be bad. So your Birdhouse would deteriorate at a slower rate than your Iguanas increase, right?

[SSS]

Great question. Then how many is a few? If you took 10 days off, probably not much of a difference. What would happen if you took the same 200 off though, after it's maxed out from the first 200? So, 200 birdhouses, then 0---but 200 days of Iguana Juicing? They probably wouldn't switch, that would be bad. So your Birdhouse would deteriorate at a slower rate than your Iguanas increase, right?

...Iguana juicing?

Ahem. Anyway, I would expect that your new skills should increase faster than your previous skills decrease. At that, it should be easier to maintain skills than it is to improve them.

[ITypedThis]

Great question. Then how many is a few? If you took 10 days off, probably not much of a difference. What would happen if you took the same 200 off though, after it's maxed out from the first 200? So, 200 birdhouses, then 0---but 200 days of Iguana Juicing? They probably wouldn't switch, that would be bad. So your Birdhouse would deteriorate at a slower rate than your Iguanas increase, right?

...Iguana juicing?

Ahem. Anyway, I would expect that your new skills should increase faster than your previous skills decrease. At that, it should be easier to maintain skills than it is to improve them.

*Directed at both of you*

Theoretically yes, I think.

But, if you spent 200 days of iguana juicing instead of building birdhouses, then your iguana skill would be increasing for 200 days, but then your birdhouse skill would be decreasing for those same 200 days, albeit slower than the increase. Then, if you were to go back to building birdhouses to re-max the skill, your iguana juicing skill would be decreasing.

For me, this is where the problem lies. You're always just trading one skill for another, provided you do more than just one thing at a time. This effectively just balances out all of the possible colonists, as no one really has anything over the others anymore, because the moment they stop doing one thing, it just lowers to a level that the other colonists may have/can easily get to. The are no more special colonists that are very good at multiple things and no more colonists are very bad at multiple things anymore. Just colonists that are capable and incapable.

[Tynan]

If you read the level descriptions (mouseover) you'll note that level 10 is the skill level of a professional in the field. So keep in mind that skill levels at 20 really represent something nigh-unattainable in real life. Most us will never meet a 20 in anything. Most people never pass 10 in anything. We've all got lots of headroom to learn, so I set the level cap very high.

At these extreme skill levels, it does take constant practice to stay good. You can't be a world-class pianist and a world-class violinist at the same time. There just isn't time, and skills degrade. I wanted this to be reflected in the game.

Perhaps you're used to other games where you just casually "max out" skills like checking items off a list, but I always thought this was ridiculous and decided to design the RW skill system a bit differently. Nobody ever really maxes out anything; it's more like climbing a muddy mountain where you slide down constantly. You can make a colonist with 10 in everything (which in itself is kind of absurd), though the passions system really encourages at least some specialization.

[ITypedThis]

If you read the level descriptions (mouseover) you'll note that level 10 is the skill level of a professional in the field. So keep in mind that skill levels at 20 really represent something nigh-unattainable in real life. Most us will never meet a 20 in anything. Most people never pass 10 in anything. We've all got lots of headroom to learn, so I set the level cap very high.

At these extreme skill levels, it does take constant practice to stay good. You can't be a world-class pianist and a world-class violinist at the same time. There just isn't time, and skills degrade. I wanted this to be reflected in the game.

Perhaps you're used to other games where you just casually "max out" skills like checking items off a list, but I always thought this was ridiculous and decided to design the RW skill system a bit differently. Nobody ever really maxes out anything; it's more like climbing a muddy mountain where you slide down constantly. You can make a colonist with 10 in everything (which in itself is kind of absurd), though the passions system really encourages at least some specialization.

Yeah OK, you make a good point.

But then what about colonists with skills that are naturally above ten? Their skills just drop down to ten anyway, most of the time while they are preparing for a raid, and then when they are in prison, and even after that, while they are asleep, eating, or in transit or when incapacitated. I suppose the passion system does put a dent in the deduction, but I still feel that that at the very least it is wasteful to a colonist's skill set.