The Infestation

Started by Captain_Silver, April 05, 2018, 12:02:56 AM

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Murdo

Ideally, I think the game would create a pocket nest several squares away from what it picks as an infestation point, and then directs the bugs to tunnel their way towards your base over a couple of hours. The observant player might wonder where that tapping is coming from.

I was reading several threads discussing the inherent uselessness of most pets as anything other than (frequently unrealistic) cannon fodder, and the reason is simply because the game does not simulate the conditions or situations for which we started domesticating and breeding these animals to begin with as a civilization. For instance, if hunting was more involved, more difficult and more rewarding (particularly at early tech levels), dogs/wolves/wargs would be extremely helpful in tracking and directing prey... whereas large cats might be trained to hunt and retrieve small prey as a semi-consistent source of food (as opposed to only when they get hungry, and then eating most of it). Housecats and lizards could be used to hunt vermin, including unseen animals (not the giant rats that are easier to just shoot), which would affect food spoilage and cleanliness multipliers in non-extreme biomes.

So... ... along those lines, it'd be super if the game telegraphed infestation points hours or a day before it popped, which could then potentially be picked up by domesticated pets given free reign to wander your mountain base. They would either alert you by barking at a wall, or for less guard-worthy pets, acting agitated when in a specific area of the base for those paying attention. This functionality could then be used in later-game technology for seismic sensors etc. etc., which would let you know when a nest had matured and started actively carving out the rock.

Yoshida Keiji

Murdo:

Fantastic input.

Yoshida Keiji

Quote from: TheMeInTeam on May 21, 2018, 01:56:47 PM
[...]

How is this bad for killbox players?  If the infestation is distant from the base they can pop bugs with an AR until they are committed to the killbox then duck through a side door and suck the entirety of the infestation into the killbox.  The bugs can't even shoot, so as long as you have good DPS output it's open season on insect meat --> go kill hives freely.

I often kite bugs to death on external infestations killbox or not, once they're gone the hives are easy targets.

I've even explored the viability of farming bugs on tribal ice sheet starts, but alas it's not that useful.  It's not trivial to keep temperatures high enough (sometimes you can pull it off by enclosing a vent, you don't want to use limited wood pre-electricity on this), but this biggest issue is getting them to happen often enough to provide survivable food rate.  Compared to humanlike raiders + cannibal infestations don't roll frequently enough for that to sustain a decent number of people, especially in the crucial early quadrums.


Basic concepts of strategical combat like:

* Keep it contained over on the loose.
* Fight on their ground over your homeland.

Applied to the game, it will vary a lot on case to case.

A killbox will get a benefit if the insectoids hive comes from the same direction the killbox entrance is. However if you map has no mountains and is flat for example. Bugs will start to dig in all directions, when they attack...and also when they retreat, some of them between 3 ~ 5 depending on how large they have grown. In best case scenarios you should be able to repair as they deal damage but in many occasions I had all the ones proficient in constructed bedridden with plague or/and malaria simultaneously. And this can be very tedious when considering another game design flaw...:

* Game flaw: (I mentioned this slightly earlier but...) Since insectoids that get any kind of harm always blame the player, when a bug dies due to either malnutrition of blood loss, their death also "re-triggers" their attack. If this happens at night, they will fall sleep again after a short time, given they encounter no combat. If this happens while their awake time...Again based on circunstancial numbers, it may become a never ending type of situation which can easily compromise your game from incoming caravans and any activity outside walls.


So, technically speaking, if your preferred method is to lure them all the way to your killbox, better ensure all of them die in that "one" long pull. I once had a super large horde that couldn't be dealt in one full day. So again, depends on scale.

This also has to be considered with other two game flaws...

* Enemy AI cannot distinguish between your "real" base and "false" bases.

This is very easy to verify if you build multiple bases, within a same map. For example, I have the tendency to "reinforce" ancient shrines, specially if their wall is of steel. If the ancient shrine is far away, to the AI, it will "look" like your base when it is not. So having a killbox may not be the best solution...specially if they split. Again, variable factor of their numbers take place. Having multiple bases within a same map can help to distract other types of enemies as they scatter, causing their power output to enweaken. But bugs are not the same as humans. So it certainly is better to fight them while they are all cloistered together...which brings me to the other game flaw.

Game flaw #3:

* Bugs pop under overhead mountains. Sometimes for again, a variable of reasons, bugs may remain unattended, and will dig out all they can. If it is a small hill, you can be very sure they will take out all stone there...with the overhead mountain...literally "floating" mid-air...(somebody call Tynan)...Physics anyone? Personally if all "ground level base" rocks are mined out... I would want to see the hole mountain crash them all like the Terminator last scene...after all they are insects...so...their low intelligence didn't prevent them from suicidal behavior.


About your second question. Hives "can" be useful in "cave" included ice sheet maps, I have done it myself already, but not in maps without the caves and glowing mushrooms, but must be very careful to not kill their tending guardians.

And again... this also brings the most notorious game flaw of all which is "Pathing"...I don't need to elaborate much do I? But I have witness countless times pawns walking "OVER" the bugs...and also, if a bug is right next to a Jelly, the pawns WILL actually punch the insectoids as in saying...."Bug, move it"...really... I can't believe these types of game flaws are left unattended....


So... returning to the question of why killbox is bad. A lot are circumstantial criterias, but generally speaking, having bugs spreader all over your map shall signal the player to stop doing that. If their numbers are small, then yes...pull them all over. I had personally managed to make insectoids go and cross from one map border to the opposing side in a 400x400 tiles map.

TheMeInTeam

I'd have to imagine that the larger the insect count the easier it is to sustain damage on at least one of them and continue aggro.  If they're really egregiously huge you can probably fight in shifts too.

Tober6fire

I mean my strategy is to build a huge wall build kill boxes (multiple) around the outside of the kill boxes (in strategic places of course) then build another huge wall around does kill boxes then repeat unless I require expansion which I am still thinking about how I am going to expand my base (lol I have so much room inside the wall). The one thing I am scared about (since mecs and raiders are super easy) is infestation since I haven't played in a mountain areas yet as I said in the previous comments so what would be the best thing to do If an infestation does develop on the inside of my base. Since I already know what to do (from previous comments) how to deal with it on the outside but not really on the inside. Yea the more I read the more frightened I am from an infestation popping out when I have no idea how to handle them. If you want to see my layout let me know so I can post a picture       
I love stories and I hope that everyone try's to contribute in telling their stories as it is interesting and intriguing to see people connect through the tales they create.

Murdo

Quote from: Tober6fire on May 29, 2018, 01:22:25 AM
I mean my strategy is to build a huge wall build kill boxes (multiple) around the outside of the kill boxes (in strategic places of course) then build another huge wall around does kill boxes then repeat unless I require expansion which I am still thinking about how I am going to expand my base (lol I have so much room inside the wall). The one thing I am scared about (since mecs and raiders are super easy) is infestation since I haven't played in a mountain areas yet as I said in the previous comments so what would be the best thing to do If an infestation does develop on the inside of my base. Since I already know what to do (from previous comments) how to deal with it on the outside but not really on the inside. Yea the more I read the more frightened I am from an infestation popping out when I have no idea how to handle them. If you want to see my layout let me know so I can post a picture       

If you plan on building in the mountains and want to be prepared for infestations, pretend you're building one of those ill-advised science fiction lab complexes where genetic manipulation or wormhole/dimensional gateway testing are eventually going to produce some kind of disaster. You're going to sacrifice some efficiency, but if done properly it won't be too much of a loss. Compartmentalize your base and connect the sections with defensible choke-points or killboxes that you can stack up on at a moment's notice. You can create junction rooms at major intersections where each hallway has multiple doors side-by-side. Assuming you have enough time and enough doors to collect your troops before the bugs get out of the wing where they spawned, you can leave the doors to their hallway open and have your colonists play peekaboo through the doors from the other directions, pairing off shooters and repairers.
If you have the resources, you can trap your open hallways and have your pawns use a gated parallel path. Make sure your rooms have multiple entrances/exits, including bedrooms, for quick escapes. If you have molotovs, and your base involves a lot of stone construction, as a nuclear option you can create "burn rooms" lined with wood floors or wood furniture, connected to the "wing" hallways but walled off until you need to use them.

If you want to get really proactive, mine out more (or equally) attractive spawn-points around the map as an alternative to your base, to lessen the probability of having to deal with containment within your own walls.

Yoshida Keiji

I only played a mountain base once...it was so fucking boring that I had never played a mountain map ever again... In that game, I had two experiences.

* Found a room
* Opened a hidden old cave, long before it became a feature. I could hear wind blowing whenever I moved my cursor over that area before discovering it. It was like an open oasis of land.


The ancient room was somehow close to the outer side with like 5~10 tiles of stone away from the outside, I recall naming that room as "Vault" and I placed all silver and other valuables there, so just in case, I built lots of deadfall traps surrounding it, one side of the rectangle had a 3 tile corridor, and the other 3 sides had 2 tiles corridors. So I secured my precious items very well. When an Infestation took place, it happened inside a bedroom, the ocupant got downed but not killed. I waited until night, the time insectoids go to sleep, and I opened all doors heading to my vault. Then, I poked one of them and started circling the Vault until they would die from the traps. Rinse and repeated with the others.

My base was built in such a way that everybody could get out in case of a raid for combat, so there were lots of corridors in all directions. I remember I built prison cells at the deeper end, near the map border so that Jailbreaks could easily be neutralized by their long pathing needed to get out.

So my advice based on one single game would be: Build a deadfall traps room and lure them there when they pop up.

Tober6fire

Hopefully creating a burn room for them will work better then for the mecs which don't give a ***** about the temperature being over 500 and encased in a hell of a flame .
I love stories and I hope that everyone try's to contribute in telling their stories as it is interesting and intriguing to see people connect through the tales they create.

Snafu_RW

Quote from: Tober6fire on May 29, 2018, 01:22:25 AM
The one thing I am scared about (since mecs and raiders are super easy) is infestation since I haven't played in a mountain areas yet as I said in the previous comments so what would be the best thing to do If an infestation does develop on the inside of my base.
Still mostly relevant: Bjorn's Rimworld Science https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PQFCMkkkjQ&index=10&list=PLYlBkCxUn55j1oukWQFfBFy8F31tW-JqC
Dom 8-)

PatrykSzczescie

I play on Cassandra Rough and my simple ways to deal with insects as an amateur:

Early game - Molotov to hive, fix structure insects try to break while accumulating heatstroke level

Middle game - Carpets in room, shoot the door with incendiary launcher, watch it spread inside, fix structure

Late game - wear power armor and fight, simply as it sounds.

PatrykSzczescie

If they're not enraged, the chance is lower than 1% to trigger a trap.