A Vehicle Framework

[BasileusMaximos]

Vehicles have probably been brought up countless times, and for good reason. After all, who wants to have to hoof it everywhere or use drop-pods that are a one way trip? With 1.0 apparently being the last major content update and with the main goal of improving the overworld, having a better way to get around said overworld would be a fitting

However, I realize that the dev wants to keep the Western theme and not make the player too powerful. So I would say just give us a basic vehicle or two to serve as a framework for modders. As is, there is only one vehicle mod that I know of, probably due to the complexity of adding them. With a native framework for such entities, I'm sure we will have a slew of mods covering everything from medieval covered wagons to sci-fi dropships!

[Jibbles]

Usually stay out of these specific topics but can't resist for some reason.

I was observing all the details in world view the other night cause the seed was kind of interesting.  The impassable mountains had choked half the globe and around the area I wanted to settle in.  There were lakes in the way as well. All of it was neat, but it's not going to affect my game.  I just didn't have reasons to go pass those mountains due to lack of quests. Going around would take way too long to consider it and those pods wont take me back home. 

Vehicles, water (not as a need), boats etc have been suggested and upvoted towards the top for several years.  That's what I got anyways when sorting through Tuesday suggestions threads dating back to 2014.  Obviously it takes time, but I wonder why ALL of these mechanics aren't worth it.  I mean, the community have been pretty vocal about each one where it clouds unique suggestions. What kind of interesting content is planned in place rather than adding these systems?

I'm in favor for the frameworks. It'll be great if a good portion of it got extended to xml as that would lead to more interesting mods and possibilities.  What's concerning is that if those systems remain so complex to implement then we'd be left very few mods with these features.  Most people will point towards them when the subject comes up and you'll be SOL if you didn't like how it was implemented. There is also that whole issue with balancing mods together. In the end, I hope the devs reconsider.

[Calahan]

The last comment I know of from Tynan regarding vehicles (and why they aren't a thing) is from the end of last year (on Reddit).

https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/75h89t/deep_rimworld_comics/do7kg1w/

re: Difficulty in programming a boat.

"It would actually be very, very difficult. Not to make it work (that's always easy), but to make the AI interact with it non-stupidly (that's always the limiting factor). It would create problems that could never really be fully solved (and we've already got lots of those).

You know how the spaceship doesn't actually fly around the map and nobody actually rides animals? Yeah, there's a reason for that..."


So it doesn't sound like a case of not being worth it, but more a case of just being very difficult to do, and to solve the AI problems created as a result. And Tynan not wanting to add to the number of the same type of difficult/impossible to solve problems than the game already has. And I'd imagine that if the proper framework for modders to add vehicles is undertaken, then IMO there's no point in not actually adding vehicles to the vanilla game at that stage. Since the framework in making them function properly, and the AI interact with them properly, is likely 90%+ of the work involved.


IMO vehicles can be viewed the same way as water, children, and all the other oft requested / "why aren't these obvious things in the game yet?" features from the past 4+ years. That being that if they're not in the game at this stage, then they're never going to be. Because if Tynan was going to add them (or add the framework for modders) then it'd make no sense to add them at the last minute, after the game has been declared feature complete, and on the home stretch towards final release. Since any of these features would likely need two or three additional alpha releases to properly test and balance, but the game is now past the alpha stage.

Every game needs to have a line drawn somewhere in regards to features, and Tynan has basically drawn the line on (major) features with B18. The alternative is to end up in either a feature creep quagmire (which is difficult if not impossible to escape from without cutting features and pissing off the people who were particularly looking forward to said cut feature). Or keep the game in Early Access / Development forever while new features are continuously added. Since it's always possible to think of a new feature to add. But that isn't a great idea for several reasons, not least all the potential customers who won't buy games until they are fully released.

Plus I'd imagine as a developer it's nice to be able to take a step back and say "I have finished my first game", rather than say "my first game is going to be in development for another XX years while more features are added until everyone is happy and every feature everyone wants is included in the game". Since for every person who opines that "the game won't be finished until vehicles are added" you can find one for water one for children one for conquest one for z-levels etc etc. Where does it end? It basically doesn't unless you draw a line, which is what Tynan has done.

[BasileusMaximos]

I wish there was a repository somewhere that had all of Tygan's responses to various things.

Anyways, without vehicles I can't see much more deeper interaction with the larger world than we do now. Being able to get around quicker and with more materials is vital to expanding the player's reach and therefor interest in the world outside their initial colony. 

[Jibbles]

Thanks for the detailed response Calahan! I know it must get old.. I was under a different impression for the reasons behind it before your post. 

I really hate to ask here out of all threads, but I've been unable to find what exactly "major features" include. 
faction types
quests
interactions with map/caravan

Are subjects similar to the above considered major features? or is it just gonna be about the bugs and optimizing after 1.0?

[Calahan]

I wish there was a repository somewhere that had all of Tygan's responses to various things.

What a huge community resource that would be, since legend has it that "Tygan" is the ultimate grimoire on all things RimWorld

Meanwhile, a repository of Tynan's various responses to X could be both good and bad. Since a lot would depend how old the comment was. I think it was last year I seen a thread on Steam arguing about the merits and feasibility of some popular request (z-levels or children most likely), and a lot of the argument was centred around one of Tynan's comments. But the comment was from just after the first alpha was released, with nobody seemingly wanting to even consider that perhaps Tynan had changed his opinion since then. As maybe something he thought was entirely possible on day 1, he since came to release was totally impossible on day 1001. It wasn't a great thread to say the least.

So linking to a load of Tynan's previous replies might be opening a box that you'd later wish would have remained shut. I have a few of Tynan's various replies bookmarked for myself (to use like I did here), but I haven't thought about putting them in a box and then opening it to all. Lets just say that I looked in the mirror and asked myself one question "Do I feel lucky? Well do you punk?", and I've answered with "no not at all actually", and kept the box lid firmly shut

Anyways, without vehicles I can't see much more deeper interaction with the larger world than we do now. Being able to get around quicker and with more materials is vital to expanding the player's reach and therefor interest in the world outside their initial colony.

I agree. To be honest the implementation of the planet view baffled me at the time, and baffles me even more so now. Since before it you'd select a site for your colony in a fairly simple yet perfectly functional way, and one that was only a few notches above selecting variables (for biome, mountain/tree coverage etc.) on a spreadsheet.

But with the introduction of the planet view I thought there must be significant plans involved to allow the player to explore and traverse it. Else why does it exist / why has it been implemented? What's the point if it's only there to look at? Or if not to travel around it then maybe the planet would be given a lifespan (like how DF creates a world history), and the player could choose what year their game would start on (so more/less wildlife/native settlements/ancient structures/mysteries depending on start date, plus option to visit old colonies etc etc etc). I was sure there was some far larger plan envisioned that necessitated the creation of the planer view.

But with caravans and drop pods being the only travel options, and with players having almost no reason to travel to far away places on the map that I can see from my playing perspective (unless going for the ancient ship ending), then you just have a large world map with 95% of it having zero bearing or impact on any given play through. Which seems more than a bit pointless. Plus you can't revisit the same planet to try out different parts of it (such as to  play a game where you travel across the world to the ruins of your former colony. You can still play such a game, but there won't be any ruins there, which would be a major let down and motivation killer). So... why does the planet view exist again? Or at least it's a question I don't know the answer to.

Than again caravans are getting a huge overhaul for v.1.0, so maybe that'll open up options, reasons, and feasibility in terms of planet travel. Wait and see I guess.

------------

I really hate to ask here out of all threads, but I've been unable to find what exactly "major features" include. 
faction types
quests
interactions with map/caravan

Are subjects similar to the above considered major features? or is it just gonna be about the bugs and optimizing after 1.0?

I'm afraid I don't know anymore than everyone else in the community about the above. And my sources are the same comments by Tynan (and ison/Zorba) that everyone else has seen regarding what to, and what not to, expect for v.1.0.

My own take is that anything genuinely new feature wise, and I guess anything that could be classed as a "major new feature", is either very unlikely or simply a hard no. Whereas if the feature already exists then it could be changed by anything from minor tweak to total overhaul (although I'd imagine that any changes to existing features won't involve changing them so much that it changes the nature of how they currently exist in the game, or the function they serve in the game).

So for example vehicles don't exist as of B18 (outside of the abstract implementation of orbital traders), hence adding them for v.1.0 would be adding a new feature and one that would have to be classified as a major feature, meaning I just can't see how that will happen (irrespective of Tynan's comment that I linked to earlier. So even if they were easy to implement they wouldn't be added at this stage). Whereas caravans do exist, and even if the planned overhaul means they are unrecognisable in v.1.0, it would still be a change to an existing feature none the less (and not a major new feature, even if the work involved was the equivalent of a major new feature).


And my guess is as good as anyone's regarding what the plan is for after v.1.0. I can't see why the bug fixing won't continue for a long time, and likely until all genuine bugs have been fixed (since not all bugs are the same, and some bugs are "not a bug, but undesirable behaviour that can't be avoided or improved", and fixing them might not be feasible and players will just have to work around them. Pathing likely being a good example of this).

Whether or not any new content will be added after v.1.0, and if so to what extent, is currently a total unknown AFAIK. I guess RimWorlders can only wait and see what happens when that time comes (which is an answer I hate both giving and receiving, but sometimes it is the only answer available when so much is unknown).

[sick puppy]

wait, i mean all this is nice and all, but there exists a mod for riding animals and one for vehicles. are they so shit that they wont be implemented or what

i mean copyright is nice and all but it has its limits somewhere (and to everyone that didnt know before, hello, i'm a real life somali pirate that hijacks tankers and your yacht)
just copy that damn mod into the rimworld files and done
and once again i have to say that i am an unenducated somali pirate, not an it person with a REAL job. i just imagine it as copy and pasting, especially after what i heard in this thread. someone actually made a mod not in xml but in the other main programming language of the rimworld files, so it's not even like ludeon had to translate something from xml to c or c++ or python or whatever rimworld runs on

like, really, do i live in a fairie tale world of pirates vs aquaman riding dinosaurs? i always looked at mods as easy peasy 1:1 copyable code :/

[Mechfried]

one thing that shouldn't be that difficult implement, ships that can only really travel between maps
Implementation by basically using the landpods code, but make it so that they can carry a lot more stuff and a lot more pawns.
let it be only be build-able in bodies of water with that lead outside the map.
is you "launch" a voyage it moves to the edge