Every canonical mention of Xenohumans, plus my opinions on why we need them.

Started by Call me Arty, May 01, 2018, 12:40:25 AM

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cultist

I think you're missing my point. You're trying to force coherence between snippets of text written by all sort of different people who don't know each other and are not actively working together to achieve anything in particular. Yes, Tynan filters the backgrounds but that doesn't mean it all adds up to something that makes sense.

Call me Arty

Quote from: cultist on May 27, 2018, 05:21:01 AM
I think you're missing my point. You're trying to force coherence between snippets of text written by all sort of different people who don't know each other and are not actively working together to achieve anything in particular. Yes, Tynan filters the backgrounds but that doesn't mean it all adds up to something that makes sense.

Real life doesn't make sense.
Ever hear of Mad Jack?
QuoteLieutenant-Colonel John Malcolm Thorpe Fleming Churchill, DSO & Bar, MC & Bar (16 September 1906 – 8 March 1996), was a British Army officer who fought throughout the Second World War armed with a longbow, bagpipes, and a basket-hilted Scottish broadsword.

Bears and Piglets are cool. Ever hear about Tardigrades?
QuoteTardigrades (also known colloquially as water bears, or moss piglets)[2][3][4][5] are water-dwelling, eight-legged, segmented micro-animals.

Weird stuff, doesn't seem like they'd both fit in the same world at all. But y'know what? As Fighting Jack Churchill was crawling through an abandoned drain pipe in Sachsenhausen concentration camp, he was probably covered in the things.

The key factor in Rimworld's universe - I believe - is distance. There's a reason nobody's getting on their cellphone to just call-up a Glitterworld. The whole reason we have the Glitter-Rim dynamic in the first place is because Glitterworlds are where all the technology began, led to more technology, and repeated. Moving that tech off of a planet will take time. Everything takes time because of this sub-ftl travel. That's why there are kings and mob bosses and special forces specializing in killing xenos. . . it's all the chaos of our existence except widely spread and mutated!

The issue is, it would be weird if we knew that Tardigrades lived in moss, moss was common in drain pipes, Jack Churchill crawled through a drain pipe, and he didn't make contact with a Tardigrade or two, because we know they exist in that manner. Similarly, it would be odd if we knew that firearm technology existed in the Rimverse, trade ships came from technological hubs, and we never saw any guns. Same deal with the fact that Medival Worlds are likely a stopping point on the way to a Rimworld (Medival worlds being at the end of technology's spread, and Rimworlds being at the end of colonization spread), and the idea that no peasant ever got on a ship or two.
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TheMeInTeam

The game doesn't "need" xenohumans.  They could be included and interesting, especially if they interact different from normal pawns mechanically.  I can picture them fitting into Rimworld similar to a lot of potential mechanics if done properly so I'm not opposed to the idea, but the game could also never implement them and be fine as well.

Call me Arty

Quote from: TheMeInTeam on May 28, 2018, 10:14:45 AM
The game doesn't "need" xenohumans.  They could be included and interesting, especially if they interact different from normal pawns mechanically.  I can picture them fitting into Rimworld similar to a lot of potential mechanics if done properly so I'm not opposed to the idea, but the game could also never implement them and be fine as well.

Personally, even with all the amazing stuff we've received in updates and the majesty that might be 1.0, I'd feel like the game was incomplete without them. I might have agreed with you on the point that I'd be fine if they were never added (-though it'd be neat if they were), I can't, not after playing with all the mods for it that I have. Some of the best ones (for me, Crystalloids and Apini, though you could throw in Androids in too if you're being lenient) just add so much culture, challenges, unique items, and special ways to have to build and customize your playstyle from colony to colony, it feels like it's missing from vanilla.
Why are you focusing on having a personal life rather than updating a mod that you're not paid to work on?

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Kirby23590

Quote from: TheMeInTeam on May 28, 2018, 10:14:45 AM
The game doesn't "need" xenohumans.  They could be included and interesting, especially if they interact different from normal pawns mechanically.  I can picture them fitting into Rimworld similar to a lot of potential mechanics if done properly so I'm not opposed to the idea, but the game could also never implement them and be fine as well.

Well you might be right with that but... I kind of like a bit of variety rather than just cannibal colonies or psychopath only colony or evil colonies. Well sure they are the same but i like to have a gravity dwarven mountainhome colony mixed with soldiermorphs in cyrosleep in case of emergencies or raids.

But would want to see them appear from time to time in normal gameplay in raids where pirates would throw me elite mercenary soldiermorphs or a tallman outlander trader visiting to sell his wares or rarely tribals in a raid using solidermorph berzerkers.

I could play the game without them but they would be a nice addition to the game in 1.0 but one could dream about what they could do :)

One "happy family" in the rims...
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Call me Arty

Quote from: Kirby23590 on May 29, 2018, 09:45:03 AM
Well you might be right with that but... I kind of like a bit of variety rather than just cannibal colonies or psychopath only colony or evil colonies.

That's definitely it. Play around with traits all you want, but you've still got baseline humans by the end of the day. Sure, you could "make" a soldiermorph by giving a pawn Careful Shooter, Psychopath/Bloodlust, and a hit of go-juice once a day, but those requirements are just so specific. The chances of getting a second pawn like that are near minimum, too, so you'll never get to the point where you have to play different as a result of your pawns.

For example: pyromaniac. Unless you're the nervous type, you don't really need to necessitate full stone buildings after you get one. The grand majority of your colonists are firefighting-capable, and can deal with one pyro. Three pyromaniacs? That's a risk, might even mean you actually research firefoam poppers for once, but still fairly manageable. Meanwhile, Cactaceae are a modded race of cactus people who -as a result of their physiology - tend to have pyrophobia (they flee from fire and are outright incapable of firefighting). A fire starts, and you're screwed. Now, firefoam is far more vital as research, and wood is pretty frowned upon. I've had colonies made out of lots of them that became very dependent on other races to keep the place from burning down, which is a real interesting thing.

Apini are bee people. They hate mountains, and the race has a unique form of claustrophobia (Claustrophobia Apinis, credit to the mod author for being so thorough!) that develops far quicker and is far quicker than standard claustrophobia. This is a pretty great deterrent to bunker-builders. Additionally, they can't wear more than an apron . . . six legs, wings, and mandibles after all. Thus, they don't do well in the cold. "Well, great, now I've got a bunch of neolithic-level pawns who don't have access to the reliable resources and protection of a mountain, and they need lots of structure to deal with coldsnaps and snow, why would I ever play this?" That's the thing, they're highly agricultural and diplomatic. They (and only Apini) can plant a special crop for making pollen, and thus beeswax (which also require plant matter). This stuff is prettier than most other materials in the game, and can be made en-masse in maps with enough plant life. This means decent weapons, beautiful architecture, and even honey (it's like insect jelly: high value and joy-abundant!). It's due to these elements that it actually becomes viable once to have excellent trade relations: your statues are the prettiest, your lodgings are the most comfortable, and your food is the tastiest! Buying mass amounts of steel, stone bricks, pawns, and other pawns is an essential part of the playstyle, which changes things up a lot. If you wanted to simulate that in vanilla, you'd need a bunch of green-thumbed nudists with the self-imposed "no mountains" rule, and that's just not too feasible.
Plus, the bees are real cute.
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Tober6fire

You certainly gave a lot of thought into this heck never even heard of xenohumans until reading this post.  ;D I even tried looking on google for what that is and it brought me straight back into this post. It would be extremely interesting to see a bit more diversity in 1.0 as they try to slowly get up there and to be honest, I would never even try to read any type of dialogue in the mods or my whole head gets a bit mixed in trying to connect it all.

Seeing different races within the human race would add some more variety but will also come with its own complexity since while your ideas are pretty thought out about what you see humans turning into something and how they will react later on. (also bee people should have a have a hive like mind for obvious reasons relating to there queen and their nature of protecting the queen) the one thing I see that could become a problem is how far are you willing to dwell into each race and how there. Mood, eating, habits, back stories, traits, how diseases affect each race differently such as one disease that could live inside a xenohuman could be extremely deadly to the other Xenohuman since their region didn't have that disease, stuff like that. 

I am interested in seeing how many races you have in mind for the Xeohumans If you can show how many races of Xeohumans you are thinking about let me see them whether they are extremely bizarre or very realistic. It will help me see how far you are willing to create such a vast amount of new human races.     
I love stories and I hope that everyone try's to contribute in telling their stories as it is interesting and intriguing to see people connect through the tales they create.

Kirby23590

Funny thing and speaking about dwarves, well gravity dwarves to be precise.

In the fiction primer or universe backstory. It said that gravity dwarves have a noted preference for short and underground dwellings.

Meaning they are better in mountain bases or staying in their bunkers or shelters in the colony. What i mean is that they might not suffer Cabin fever mood debuff or thought. I don't know the opposite of cabin fever or the inverse of it, maybe Agoraphobia?

Gravity dwarves loves being in or staying in their safe mountains or colonies that keep them boxed in from dangers. But if they go outside though and for a few hours they might get a mood debuff, minus from vomiting because of them being nauseous from the bright sun. While being better at mining and being hard to hit at ranged combat because of their short structure unless when at close range. While also being a bit slower at movement speed than their average humans and xenohumans.

Soldiermorphs being main soldiers rather than workers having a lower global workspeed (Though they can haul stuff.). They are better at using weapons in ranged and melee combat than their average human or other xenohuman counterparts, being able to take more hits and attack more efficiently. To counter this, their lifespans are short meaning after a few years and they start becoming old and getting diseases since they are not mean't to live that long since they are mostly used as soldiers and fighters, but they have a better mental break threshold than others and might not be disturbed at the sight of death though lacking the pawn's bloodlust trait unless they have it.

Quote from: Tober6fire on May 30, 2018, 01:50:42 AM
You certainly gave a lot of thought into this heck never even heard of xenohumans until reading this post.  ;D I even tried looking on google for what that is and it brought me straight back into this post. It would be extremely interesting to see a bit more diversity in 1.0 as they try to slowly get up there and to be honest, I would never even try to read any type of dialogue in the mods or my whole head gets a bit mixed in trying to connect it all.

You should read the RimWorld universe backstory. It contains the lore of rimworld's universe and stuff that might come or not in the future of the game in v1.0. Some of it is intriguing and interesting stuff.  ;)

One "happy family" in the rims...
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Diana Winters


Call me Arty

Quote from: Diana Winters on June 21, 2018, 03:14:22 PM
*Melodramatically* No mention of Orassans? I am wounded so!

TL;DR: They're cat aliens, not xenohumans. They were not made by nor born from humans, thus aren't xenohuman (same reason I didn't highlight the Elder Things. Also, I've never played with them, and wouldn't want to speak on something I have no experience with.

Respectfully, I've just never played your mod. I don't intend offense, they're biology is based off of a webcomic I devoted a lot of time to, they're really well thought-out, and have had a pretty big impact on the modding community. The issue is. . . I'm picky. As an example, I like Cactaceae because of how little they do. They match the artstyle, and vary enough from humans that a sizeable population of them can alter how you make your base, or you could just drop them in with humans with little difference, same for the Elder Things, or Logann. I like the Apini, as they're "Simple Tier Xeno+". They require a bit more work to make them happy, meaning changing up your base a fair amount, and having tangible effects on your playstyle (now that you have honey and beeswax to work with, and Apini not liking mountains at all). Same thing for Androids. Beyond that - on a tier of their own - are the Crystalloids. They match the artstyle, they have a unique physiology, they've got a special material to build with, and really neat psychic fields that not only give an incentive to really change-up your base, because they give bonuses to your pawns and power new generators for cool new structures. A colony devoted to Crystalloids plays nothing like a standard colony, even though it might not even be the best choice, just an alternative. That's why I've tried to get my mitts on those mods for every version of the game.

Once again, respectfully, your Orassans mod just doesn't hit those same notes, at least for me. Their textures don't fit too well with the rest of the game, being fine in the cold doesn't change more than how many heaters you have in a base, and don't seem to promote too big a change in playstyle (keep in mind, the only thing I have to go off of is the Steam and Forum page), though the Betharian stone seems to be an interesting thing, like the psychic fields. There's also the issue, however, of them being a self-admitted highly-advanced futuristic space empire. While I like the idea of that, I commend Tynan keeping the Glittertech to a couple items and the occasional trade ship. Too much power and not a lot of struggle just doesn't appeal to me. . . which is kinda the point. You've got a well-made mod that I just don't like the concept of. . . plus, they're cat aliens.

Rimworld's lore doesn't have aliens. Some might call it arbitrary, some might call it restrictive, but it doesn't. To mention Orassans would be like bringing-up Elder Things or the Logann, which is something I'm not ready to try to argue to the developers. Once again, I highlight Cactaceae as a perfect example in their simplicity. They're just modified humans intended for harsh arid environments. They can't shoot spines, they don't have any agave-powered energy weapons, they just do better in the aforementioned environment: They need less food (which would be hard to get in, say, an extreme desert), they are more comfortable in extreme heat, and are a tad hardier than a human. You could see them added for the same reason we have muffalos and dromedaries instead of just, say, cows.

P.S. Did you know that the only videos I could find of your mod were from some German lady from, like, three to four updates ago? I was trying to get more info on the thing I wrote a couple paragraphs about without playing, didn't find a whole lot.
Why are you focusing on having a personal life rather than updating a mod that you're not paid to work on?

If there's a mistake in my post, please message me so I can fix it!

Diana Winters

Quote from: Call me Arty on June 21, 2018, 10:25:44 PM
Quote from: Diana Winters on June 21, 2018, 03:14:22 PM
*Melodramatically* No mention of Orassans? I am wounded so!

TL;DR: They're cat aliens, not xenohumans. They were not made by nor born from humans, thus aren't xenohuman (same reason I didn't highlight the Elder Things. Also, I've never played with them, and wouldn't want to speak on something I have no experience with.

<snip>

Don't worry, I'm not actually offended. And yes, I knew about the lack of videos. In any event, the orassans are supposed to be from Stellaris, which is why they have nice tech. Playing as them is more for casual players (unless you use the storyteller that comes with them at a high difficulty! Then you'll need the increased firepower ;)). The main playstyle differences if you're going to really roleplay as them are morality restrictions and a very high starting population, but I haven't really implemented these sort of things yet. Sadly you can't make scenarios starting with more than 10 colonists.

Some minor differences are that orassans (without their technology) are much more fragile than humans and will go down in a gunfight quite quickly, but they're fast and tend to be great at melee combat.

P.s. as much as I like twokinds, I only started reading the comic after I made orassans. Orassan biology (and society) is quite different from Kiedran biology... at least internally. Their anatomy, especially their posture, is quite similar though. That is why I used the picture that I did.

Call me Arty



>Version 1.0 is being tested.
>We have waterwheels.
>No mention of xenos.
>mfw
Why are you focusing on having a personal life rather than updating a mod that you're not paid to work on?

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Adamiks

Pretty Darn Nice

I personally really only care about xenos that are vastly different from humans (for example, i'd love to play as a race **similar** to xenomorphs, using prisoners as a way of reproduction, carnivores) and consider races like "bee people" pretty meh. Though that kinda races take a lot of effort and possibly game-changing features, so, all that being said, i'd be happy with just sub-xenos, like g-dwarves or g-elves, etc. Or even something as minor as people with various bioengineered backstories having more effective body parts and different capabilities - Engineered soldiers could be tougher (body parts with more HP) etc. For example, bioengineered miners who can only see in the dark - and are blinded during the day. That kinda stuff wouldn't take much to implement but would also really flesh out the colonists and lore.

Call me Arty

Quote from: Adamiks on June 26, 2018, 05:06:33 AM
Pretty Darn Nice

I personally really only care about xenos that are vastly different from humans (for example, i'd love to play as a race **similar** to xenomorphs, using prisoners as a way of reproduction, carnivores) and consider races like "bee people" pretty meh. Though that kinda races take a lot of effort and possibly game-changing features, so, all that being said, i'd be happy with just sub-xenos, like g-dwarves or g-elves, etc. Or even something as minor as people with various bioengineered backstories having more effective body parts and different capabilities - Engineered soldiers could be tougher (body parts with more HP) etc. For example, bioengineered miners who can only see in the dark - and are blinded during the day. That kinda stuff wouldn't take much to implement but would also really flesh out the colonists and lore.

Though I am frankly offended by your disparaging of my beloved Apini, I like the idea of a way to convert others to be more like your colony (you can make a colony with all cannibals/psychopaths/night owls, and 100% of your colonists have it. . . in your colony of three). Xenomorphs would fit the bill. It's also a way to differentiate xenos from traited-up humans. Xenomorphs (despite being aliens) couldn't be recreated just by giving humans the jogger and bloodlust trait. You'd be missing acid blood, sword-like tails, and would have to take responsibility for keeping them from doing any complex tasks and keeping them from wearing clothes or using weapons. No offense, but assuming you add nothing else, soldiers with tougher bodyparts could just be somebody with a high shooting skill and the "though" trait. The miners could just have some kind of photosensitivity or be night owls. On the other hand, soldiermorphs are nearly physically perfect, can only eat one kind of food, have a short lifespan (experienced players could easily see old age killing more of these guys than raiders), pain-tolerant, and are dumber than a sack of bricks. Sure, those could be five traits, but gifted (sometimes cursed, depends on the taits) can still only have about three. Therefore, why not xeno?
Why are you focusing on having a personal life rather than updating a mod that you're not paid to work on?

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nccvoyager

IIRC, Tynan once indicated that he hoped to add (what I remember him calling) sub-human races eventually.
(Dwarf-like, elf-like, et cetera.)
At that time, he also stated that there was no guarantee that other races would ever actually be added, and that if they were added, they would be added extremely late in development, after everything else was more or less complete.