Unstable build feedback thread

[iamomnivore]

I'm taking a bug report for the manhunter door thing.

Do you have any thoughts on your new armor calculations? Are you keeping that abomination, thinking on reverting, redesigning....

I'd have to hear some reason why, most people here seem to like it from what I can tell. Make sure you're aware of the latest changes since the unstable build.

Yep. I LOVE the new armor system. It's much more realistic and ... interesting! I've had way more fun watching the little "plinks" and bullets fly off than I ever did thinking, "Oh, nice. They took less damage."

[Perq]

More caravan stuff:

After caravan comes back to town, pawns could get back to beds they were assigned to before they left. It is kinda bothersome when it comes to couples, but also messes up all setups of greedy pawns, and so on.

[Bones]

More caravan stuff:

After caravan comes back to town, pawns could get back to beds they were assigned to before they left. It is kinda bothersome when it comes to couples, but also messes up all setups of greedy pawns, and so on.

Good one. I would say a button that forces the pawn to a bed even if outside the map, that way we can choose which beds are okay to be used by other pawns and which are not.
This is probably this way because if you get new pawns while other are in a caravan, they wouldn't be left without a bed.

[BlackSmokeDMax]

Is there a rolling changelog for the 1.0 experimental updates? (wondering whats updated since last night)

I've kept one going on Steam forums: https://steamcommunity.com/app/294100/discussions/0/1729827777335846049/

(copy/pastes of Tynan's update change posts with links to the actual posts here in this thread.)

[East]

https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/RimWorld
https://www.twitch.tv/directory/game/RimWorld/videos/all?sort=time

Sometimes I feel a gap between patch content and actual game play.

Taynan seems to worry about the prejudices of reporters.

So how about this?

twitch rimworld. There are many English 1.0 broadcasts.

Hiding the identity of the developer and asking the streamer, "Why do not you wear armor," "Why not the world map quest", "What do you think about this patch?" I think you can get feedback without prejudice.

You can also create a separate twitch ID that displays the rimworld developer and get feedback from streamers.
A streamer will give you agressive feedback if you find it is a developer. Of course, complaining too.

You can also watch the last broadcast through the streamer movie tab on the twitch, so you can see how they are playing.
Looking at the past videos, you will be able to see where they have reached and what has been destroyed.
And major combat tactics and corresponding tactics too.

It does not take long. If you invest only 15 minutes, you can check all the contents on several broadcasts.

If Taynan uses the contents of the broadcast and here posts, he can get more diverse feedback.

[bbqftw]

I hope this isn't considered overly hostile but has to be said.

Tynan, if you were honest with yourself, you might infract yourself with theorycrafting, since you appear to have a profound disconnect with how the game is played on higher difficulties and presume the effectiveness of a fair playstyle that simply does not exist there.

You dismiss the concerns of strong players like East by claiming their playstyle is cheesy or abusive. And yet, I look at him and I see a player with a shocking tolerance of trading shots with the enemy. The doorway / triple sandbag is emblematic of this (letting the enemy even take shots is remarkable risk tolerance). He is one of the more fair players out there on this difficulty!

You deride micro-y fights yet that is the few ways you can differentiate mediocre from good players. Its the difference between beating a 3v5 2nd raid with some damage, to no damage with risky plays, to no damage with safe plays, to no damage with safe plays and no pathing manipulation. There is less of this vs manhunter, but it is there.

What is your envisioned fair fight on extreme fighting outnumbered? Trading shots behind low cover like typical player does? When things like doomsday / trip / AoE CC mechanisms are in play? The existence of certain threats is such that the only correct play is never to allow them to interact.

What experience, or trusted playtest experience do you have to assess that this intended fair playstyle is indeed effective?

I will make a quick example about risk assessment.

Take an encounter with killing a solitary beaver. Around 2% chance per attack (maybe more) to permanent eye scratch, non trivial infection chance. Do you imagine meleeing this fearsome beaverial scourge to be an acceptable option? Show me a player who consistently takes this risks like this on extreme and I will show you a player that lives or dies based on his die rolls alone. I could flip coins at this point for a similar experience.

I was discussing a finding on an odd game mechanics with a player that far exceeds my ability last night. I was urged not to share it, since he was insistent the 'fix' would just lead to the degradation of gameplay. I might have thought this was cynical at the time. Maybe he's right.

[Bones]

I will make a quick example about risk assessment.

Take an encounter with killing a solitary beaver. Around 2% chance per attack (maybe more) to permanent eye scratch, non trivial infection chance. Do you imagine meleeing this fearsome beaverial scourge to be an acceptable option? Show me a player who consistently takes this risks like this on extreme and I will show you a player that lives or dies based on his die rolls alone. I could flip coins at this point for a similar experience.

You wouldn't send a melee guy alone, the melee should be there to help the shooter in case the shooter fails, so the beaver doesn't get to the shooter, which should be a more valuable pawn then the melee guy.

A pawn with high melee skill is preferable but any guy in armor with a melee weapon should be able to hold for your shooters.

I know you are talking about extreme here but like I read the other day, one person talking about tips for extreme that would go as far as leaving everything in the open to degrade it as to diminish his wealth value, since low hp on most items still behave the same way. It's not that he is wrong, just something that I wouldn't do.

That are things that are cheese and that is that, they are just trying solutions to try see if they can mitigate that.

[Boboid]

Take an encounter with killing a solitary beaver. Around 2% chance per attack (maybe more) to permanent eye scratch,

Eye damage no longer causes permanent damage.
Additionally the chance to hit an eye is 0.4% per eye. The More You Know
As to the rest of your post.. Modifications to game systems based on the most extreme scenarios on either end of the bell curve are inherently more likely to have unintended consequences.
---
As to what you see as dice rolling - which is to say, situations where you feel you have insufficient agency - that's mostly down to your perception.
You're not forced to melee that beaver, nor fight it unarmed, nor even fight it at all.
You have agency over almost every aspect of that encounter, your melee accuracy, dodge chance, dps, the medicine you use, the skill of the physician. All things you have control over.
You can alter the average outcome of that encounter. And ultimately that's the most important thing to remember.
The whole idea is not to be able to alter a situation until you always have a 100% chance of perfect success, the idea is to be able to on average yield a positive result across multiple encounters.

Since you're keen on extreme examples: SC2 could be argued as a game with no inherent random factors. Damage calculations have no random elements, nor with the possible exception of some map's starting locations do any other game features.
But in reality that breaks down because humans intrinsically add chaos to an otherwise entropic state.
How an individual plays and reacts to information provided -while not random in a mechanical sense- constantly introduces unknown variables.
Some games will be lost entirely down to build order. Others to a split second decision to choose one of two paths, ect.
Most people would describe that as bad luck. You didn't roll any real world dice but you were forced to pick between two mutually exclusive options where the results were not known.

What more can I say? Study statistics and start treating every decision and every object as though it's Schrodinger's object.
I can't say for certain that the result will be you're happier while playing Rimworld but it might allow for a broader assessment of personal agency.. which could be good or bad depending on how Nihilistic you are

[Syrchalis]

More caravan stuff:

After caravan comes back to town, pawns could get back to beds they were assigned to before they left. It is kinda bothersome when it comes to couples, but also messes up all setups of greedy pawns, and so on.

This annoyed the hell out of me in B18. Tynan please take note, this is a very important QoL change for caravans. It's so annoying it makes me use caravans noticeably less, because I just can't be bothered to do the same clicks every time a caravan comes back, especially if I have many couples.

[alxddd]

EDIT: Also FYI, y'all have well outpaced our ability to actually implement the notes that I've been taking. Currently we've got about 12 pages of backlogged tasks to work on, so if something's not done yet it doesn't mean we're not planning it. If you want to take a break testing that wouldn't be a terrible idea, since testing data given now will be a bit distorted since it's played in a context of a bunch of problems we've already got plans to fix.

Just wondering if you're still backlogged and if so, when you think we should resume testing? I have a bunch of free time later this week and was hoping to dig into a long game to be able to contribute some feedback.

[taviandir]

Could possibly be referring to the defName change from Plant_Raspberry to Plant_Berry, which would naturally affect back-compat. I've noticed that likes to spew out errors.

Yes, I suffered the sudden disappearance of all berries on my map.
Also, all my structures and furniture was damaged to about 60% of hitpoints.
Save file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rzk1dmivz8rwu2h/1.0_Notani%20-%201051.rws?dl=0

Is there a way to open the debug console to copy-paste the information? It flashes too fast for me to read during loading.

[Bones]

Is there a way to open the debug console to copy-paste the information? It flashes too fast for me to read during loading.

In the option menu you can set it to developer mode, a few buttons will appear at the top of the screen, one of them is the log, I think the first one.

EDIT: You can also try editing your save file in case of Plant_Raspberry to Plant_Berry. You look for one text and replace with the new one, then load your game. I did it for the tunneler change which without modifying the save file would make the pawns love the trait and leave the slot open.

[Boboid]

Also, all my structures and furniture was damaged to about 60% of hitpoints.

Without having looked at your save file -
That's probably because the max health of objects made of wood was adjusted in the most recent update. Increased specifically.
Everything will have retained its existing health value but the max went up so.. everything is now damaged

[bbqftw]

I will make a quick example about risk assessment.

Take an encounter with killing a solitary beaver. Around 2% chance per attack (maybe more) to permanent eye scratch, non trivial infection chance. Do you imagine meleeing this fearsome beaverial scourge to be an acceptable option? Show me a player who consistently takes this risks like this on extreme and I will show you a player that lives or dies based on his die rolls alone. I could flip coins at this point for a similar experience.

You wouldn't send a melee guy alone, the melee should be there to help the shooter in case the shooter fails, so the beaver doesn't get to the shooter, which should be a more valuable pawn then the melee guy.

A pawn with high melee skill is preferable but any guy in armor with a melee weapon should be able to hold for your shooters.

I know you are talking about extreme here but like I read the other day, one person talking about tips for extreme that would go as far as leaving everything in the open to degrade it as to diminish his wealth value, since low hp on most items still behave the same way. It's not that he is wrong, just something that I wouldn't do.

That are things that are cheese and that is that, they are just trying solutions to try see if they can mitigate that.

the point of my risk assessment there is how an extreme players deems melee to be a crappy deal, whereas in Tynans fantasy land he envisions mixed arms. This may work in clowny scenarios where you don't get punished to the max for taking bad risks, but has no bearing in serious game discussion.

Once again, profound disconnect.

But I didn't know eye scratch was not permanent there, so that's cool

I used 2% because an animal does multiple types of melee attacks during a hit, at least I've had situations where I've gotten double eye scratched in single hit (I laughed a bit, and accepted my just punishment for letting anything ever hit me).

[Bones]

melee to be a crappy deal

Tynans fantasy land

no bearing in serious game discussion.

You are not helping your case here.