Unstable build feedback thread

[gadjung]

planting trees still taking way too long. in case that whole map got down with volcanic winter / poison ship or just to make a small forest for next year harvest it's next to impossible while not designing all pawns

[Skynert]

Must say big thank you for changing faction colors on map to more colorblind friendly

[Tass237]

How do allied caravans decide where to wait in your base? In my colony they always wait in the most awkward and inconvenient places, never near by the entrance. Like far away by the geothermal plant, or in a constrained one tile wide tunnel inside the mountain, or right into the huge insect infestation that grow very close to the colony. I think they should be smarter about it... got a free charge lance and a faction boost though.

They choose a mostly random spot "just outside your colony", as defined by your home zone. I personally agree that their spot selections leave much to be desired, but I can see the argument that it is a designed difficulty.

I feel like pets reproduce too quickly, every time I see a "has given birth" message I just kill the puppies, since opportunities for sell them don't come often enough. My fridge has 11 puppy corpses and a least 6 are about to be born in a couple of days. I know I can keep only one gender, but that's a all or nothing proposition, I wish there was a neutering operation so I could tone down the rate of reproduction. That would save me some hassle and having the females almost always with movement debuffs. Also, peg legs for dogs plz.

I agree that neutering would be nice in certain situations. Such as pregnant muffalos slowing down your caravan. However, I'm pretty sure that peg legs for animals were removed because it was too easy to gain Medical experience that way. Maybe if peg legs for animals came back, but didn't give Medical experience...

Opportunistic hauling seems to never kick in when I want it to, like when miners return to rest, I never saw them bring some of the ore with them.

That is probably because the target stockpile is too far from their bedroom (which is their new target location), so they don't haul as it would take them too far out of their way. Try putting a mined metals stockpile closer to the bedrooms (or freezer, if they are going for a meal instead).

So moderate toxic buildup does the rotting thing to my tame muffalos which I wanted to butcher for food. .. maybe my 3 caravan guys arrive in time to relieve my people but I guess I have to leave my map for a while to avoid starving to death.

If your muffalos are wandering around unroofed areas, then yeah, their meat becomes toxic too. Try putting up a bunch of roofs over some grassy areas when the fallout first begins, then assigning your meat animals to a zone that stays under the roofs. They can eat the grass that was already there for a while, and won't be toxic when you want to butcher them.

[iamomnivore]

Your larger, more populated, more mechanized base is making that much more noise, vibrations, and heat. Of course more and bigger hives would be attracted.

Also, I'd just like to set forth a concern about players, admittedly not playing on Extreme, trying to set the standard for and provide opinions on what it is. Let us crazy people have our pinnacle

Its still bs amount no matter how you look at it. Thats 400-500k wealth worth, not 175k. 70 bugs. And i ll mention once again, that it wasn't even extreme difficulty level, it was "hard". I don't play extreme masochistic levels, so feel free to make it however unfair and unbalanced you want - its there for that reason. But hard should be hard. Not crazy.

Fair enough. I love your feedback, to be honest. Keep it coming.

[Sirinox]

Well, my tribe colony from ~1.0.1958 just got wiped out by a siege with too much snipers so I want to share some notes taken from this and previous colony.

• Wild rats ignited IED traps. That's a bit annoying.


• Deep drills seem to only get one type of stone chunks present on map. Wish I could find different ones, at least if drill is placed on stone floor on that type.


• Mechs and insects are hard to find on map if some of them have separated from the main group. Especially when it is "pods went hayware" mechanoid raid. And insects just blend in with ground and trees.


• Since how much more convenient caravans are now, they could use some more reinstallable furniture, not only bedrolls . It's cool that we now have butcher spots that are very useful for smaller early game caravans, for makeshift kitchens with butcher spot and campfire.
  For large caravans (~5-8 people with 10+ muffalo) now I carry a fueled stove (20 kg) with me, already with saved bills in it — neat! — to make snacks from foraged berries and animals on the spot I go to, but I feel like moving full size stove on a muffalo is a bit odd. (sometimes take a butcher table and a vanometric cell as well for some more serious camps)
  If only there was something more suited for caravans in the niche between campfires and stoves for mid-end game caravans, like a smaller and lighter chemfuel stove just as we have portable gas stoves IRL.


• Another thing, now that we have foraging, does caravan cooks do something with gathered berries? I didn't quite look at it closely, but looks like pawns just eat it raw. It would be neat if they could actually cook something with it on campfires/stoves while caravan is resting. Hunters going for small game to get some meat, at least if caravan is resting in daytime when set to rest by player, would be nice too, and useful for colder regions with nothing to forage.


• Slaughter mental break event should send red letter — sometimes I have no chance to arrest that pawn, only hit pause button in time to find him already half way through the process. My poor starting doggos...


• When using 'b' for stockpile rename button it immediately prints b instead of previous name. With new "take to/look at the stockpile" feature I now name stockpiles much often and this is somewhat annoying when you need just to change the name slightly.


• Searching for weapons of people who fell on the ground like ones who went catatonic or drunk and so on every time is somewhat tedious.


• Research in tribe colony seems slow, but manageble and fitting. 2 researchers on different shifts make up for the speed penalty, 2 tables and 3 researchers is more than enough, for me at least, and let rush for techs at a price of pawn work time. (Cas extreeme)


• I feel like "Plate armor" is not complete without helmets covering at least ears, nose and mouth.

Thrilled to play with new LRMS, but from what I've already seen, there is no option to look for steel. Like, really big chunk of it, maybe 2-3 times larger than other deposits. I'd like it if there was one like that, there are situations when I would rather search for steel.

[Madman666]

Fair enough. I love your feedback, to be honest. Keep it coming.

Will do Just need to get home tomorrow and start RW up. I am real curious about new mineral scanner functionality (small hope, that steel was added to it lives on) and also about mini-turret rebalance (less hp, more dmg, less maintenance). Tbh i am kinda worried, since steel mini-turrets tend to pop like baloons already with weapons being buffed for damage.

Thrilled to play with new LRMS, but from what I've already seen, there is no option to look for steel. Like, really big chunk of it, maybe 2-3 times larger than other deposits. I'd like it if there was one like that, there are situations when I would rather search for steel.

God. Damn. Why not steel? Why? Its the most needed resource, it makes perfect sense to let us search for it! Man

[iamomnivore]

... enemy forces who don't hesitate to use kamikaze tactics and don't care about losses and friendly fire ...

This. Why would every Tom, Dick, and Jane rush headlong into death? Even after watching multiple comrades take heavy damage or downed / killed? If it's possible to do, there should really be some kind of "Oh, Shit!" system for attackers. Have them backup a bit to further cover or attempt to use medicine on themselves, or pick up weapons from downed comrades, stop and seek cover after taking a couple of shots in short order (Those melee pack leaders,) etc. They don't have to all-out flee, since that mechanic already exists but, the kamikaze thing works way too well for raids and not at all for colonies. Go-Juice and certain traits, like Bloodlust or Psychopath, could negate this. A bit of variety and interest to raider actions would feel so good and let up, just a little bit, on the "melee rush."

As it stands, every soul we face off against is in fact, Tom Foolery, Deranged Dick, and Insane Jane.

[Wintersdark]

If so, I think that is a great change. The toxic fallout event was almost a boon rather than a hindrance with the free meat supply.

Absolutely.  I always used to look at toxic fallout as a flat out benefit because I'd instantly effortlessly get all the meat and leather on the map without risk/time hunting.  Even big gribbly creatures. 

I really love how it's the toxic buildup status effect that causes the rot, too; not just dying in the fallout, so you can't game it by rescuing downed animals then killing them.  It makes sense: their bodies are literally so full of toxins they're dying.  Obviously it won't be good meat. 

It's nice for Fallout to actually be a more dangerous event instead of just a green tinted benefit.

[Wintersdark]

I 100% can't agree more. Biggest thing that makes it hard to accept just starting new games all the time is I spend a lot of prep time finding the correct pawns and location I want before playing. I would go a step further and give players a small reward for starting over.

I'm totally on board with such an option, but as an aside I always make a new, specially named save at the very start of a game so I can restart that specific game.

However, if Tynan wants to have permadeath (with a less intimidating name) on by default, a "restart *this* game" option would be a very good idea, as a day-one save would no longer be possible.

[Madman666]

This. Why would every Tom, Dick, and Jane rush headlong into death? Even after watching multiple comrades take heavy damage or downed / killed? If it's possible to do, there should really be some kind of "Oh, Shit!" system for attackers. Have them backup a bit to further cover or attempt to use medicine on themselves, or pick up weapons from downed comrades, stop and seek cover after taking a couple of shots in short order (Those melee pack leaders,) etc. They don't have to all-out flee, since that mechanic already exists but, the kamikaze thing works way too well for raids and not at all for colonies. Go-Juice and certain traits, like Bloodlust or Psychopath, could negate this. A bit of variety and interest to raider actions would feel so good and let up, just a little bit, on the "melee rush."

As it stands, every soul we face off against is in fact, Tom Foolery, Deranged Dick, and Insane Jane.

I second this. But there was already an attempt to make raiders tend to themselves. Only they did it in the most improper place and time - like in the middle of open space, making them easy targets and didn't even stop tending when getting shot at, so it was removed... I wish there was a smarter way of implementing it - like taking cover, then tending, only tending when wounds are real bad, stop tending if under fire and etc. I d prefer smarter enemies over just more enemies everyday. I really don't like the mechanic of them just piling you with bodies, eventually reaching crazy amounts, but doing all the same stuff.

[5thHorseman]

I just had mechanoids attack in force. Like 10 of them, right as *2* caravans from the same faction were leaving in that exact direction. I was terrified that these guys (who are normally in the negatives but I just got over 50) would hate me for it, but they all died to the mechanoids and took out about half of them doing so. My traps got a few more and I mopped up the last couple. Some of the caravan (and all of the muffalos) escaped so I didn't get a ton of stuff, but I was very happy to see my rep was still right at 51 when the whole thing was over.

[Bolgfred]

I reworked adaptation system (formerly known as ramp-up) completely; it largely revolves around giving some breathing room after heavy losses to make recovery possible. Trying not to make the effect too extreme though. It should nudge, not dominate the numbers.

Dunno what you've been changing but after a tough fight I prefer time for recovery instead of reduced strenght for the next attack. RNG pisses me off the most when I get attacked shortly in repeat whilst I try to reconfigure myself.

[Greep]

So after playing a bunch with the new adaptation, it looks like this dramatically makes the game easier.  My last raids were 45 tribals and 35 outlanders, this current raid is 14 sappers, and the last was 7 polar bear. This makes sense as the older system was a straight multiplier where, even if it dropped every other raid or two, would still end up being a multiplier of ~2-3, only reaching 4+ if you never lost anyone. 

It could just mean I need to play more as probably the whole system reset to 0 on the update.


Edit:  This update is probably a good stopping point anyways, as having played a turret based game last game and a killbox this game, it's getting a bit samey and the outdoors problem below is just killing it for me xD  Things I can say about mountain bases:

The outdoors need is just killer and crazy annoying, even after the change.  It is just so annoying to deal with: you have to draft them to sit outdoors, and then when they undraft you have to draft them and then when they undraft again you have to draft them.  Times like 7 colonists.  Only then they're starving to death because every four days or so you have to make them do this for a full day, and you don't want to make them go eat because you then have to hunt down 7 colonists to repeat this process.  And you can't just deal with -15 mood, it's too crushing, so you have to do this.

And even when you do do this, not much is getting done because they're usually doing this ritual.  So I guess you have to put off going into the mountain either until really really late game when you have tons of joywire, or just have to deal with this annoyance.

On caves:  As noted earlier, it's bizarre that caves have these pockets of thin roofing when you mine out the innards of them.  Probably has something to do with the order of these operations in map generation.

On infestations:  Surprisingly the one I dealt with wasn't so bad, probably because of how I set up my cannons, deadfalls, and lighting, and I had some armored dudes to keep them from blowing up cannons.  It could have gone wrong is so many ways, though, so they definitely don't need to be stronger.

Anyways, going to try out animal swarming for fun

[Syrchalis]

Two things:

1. Why are hydroponics "PassThroughOnly"? It makes no sense to me, because when sowing the pawns walk over them anyway, there isn't really an abuse case for this. It just makes it quite tedious to micromanage something around them.

2. Tree Sowing with 4000 work is pretty decent. I tested it now and it feels like it takes some time, but not as horrendously much as right now. I didn't test 6000 work yet. But I can say 12000 work just leads me to never sowing trees ever for anything.

[fritzgryphon]

Neat side effect of animal training decay.

If a bonded animal reverts to the wild due to training decay, the animal is no longer bonded to the owner.  You can then hunt it without repercussions.