Unstable build feedback thread

[Greep]

-Debuff devilstrand so it's in line with good leathers.

Imo devilstrand should be better than leathers. And significantly better. It takes a lot of time to grow it, while all you need to get leathers is a combat worthy colonist, an LMG and a megasloth. Combine those - bam, leathers. No research, no sowing, no maintaining temperature on harsh biomes. Just a bit of violence.

It might sound presumptious, but opinion of one guy probably playing year-round grow season saying its too OP, because he can sow a crapton and then get full devilstrand wearing colony shouldn't be a reason valid enough for a nerf to it. You won't be able to consistently grow tons of devilstrand on harsher biomes and even on a temp forest with only 30 growing days its not that easy, unless you invested into having several greenhouses, which eat a lot of power and need heating to function through winter.

Please consider buffing devilstrand back.

From the sounds of it with the current armor system, it sounds like good leather should be buffed to devilstrand's level. I feel pretty vulnerable even in plate which is much better than leather, although I feel extremely durable in good quality power armor.

[Madman666]

Thrumbofur is what i think the only leather type material, that should have comparable or better stats than devilstrand. Things like bearskin, elephant skins and etc. should be a notch worse. If leathers will have same or better stats than devilstrand - why would you ever waste time researching it, time and space for sowing it (and power if you are on a harsh biome\winter), when you can just go shoot some animals for fun and get the stuff that is basically the same?

I d prefer devilstrand be even harder to get (yet more grow time, plant skills restriction etc), than a stat nerf. You ll be more or less 100% forced to switch to power armor later anyway.

[mndfreeze]

I ve seen some guy on youtube use restriction zones for animals as waypoints to set wolf\warg ambushes for enemy shooters, hiding animals  in small rooms. It was rather effective, all he needed to do then is hit "Release" command and enemies were pretty much instantly forced into uneven melee.

I'd call this heavy micromanagement (more than I'd prefer to setup and do) and a good, rarely used tactic.  Not something your average player does or would think to do.  Not the sort of thing that would need to have the game built around by any means.  I'd hate to see every creative solution people come up with get nerfed like an exploit.  Also with the increased work and maint to animals as well as their raid scaling changes it actually gives them a little more reason to be used again.

I agree that animals move to their reassigned zones way to slowly.  Pasture animals are generally a loss for me as well unless I get lucky.

[Madman666]

I wish animals could be trained for a limited draft really... like when in the vicinity of their master, they could be drafted if trained several more levels in obedience and have advanced intelligence. That d eliminate the need for excruciating micro masochism with zones.

[Serenity]

Imo devilstrand should be better than leathers. And significantly better. It takes a lot of time to grow it, while all you need to get leathers is a combat worthy colonist, an LMG and a megasloth.

Agreed. It's the same with wool really. You invest a lot of time and resources into it, but at the end it's not truly better than trivially easy leather. Wool was OP before true, but it and devil strand need to have a benefit that it's proportional to how difficult it is to get.

What's the usage case here? You guys are using animal areas to micromanage animals? Sort of like ordering them around in combat?

Not for combat really. When I have hauling dogs I use an animal area to keep them out of the freezer and restrict them to an area somewhat close to the base. So they don't wander all over the map.
And maybe a safe zone later on when fights become crazy or during an infestation.

[mndfreeze]

Pain does not kill people and the linked screenshot shows the real reason: The body parts efficiency hit 0% and since it is a vital body part it means the pawn dies. Infections on the highest extreme stage reduce body part efficiency by 70% so in combination with more injuries on that part it is easy to get to 0%.
If you have an infection on a high damages vital body part, you need to take care of this and use better medicine where available or replace it or use luci / healer serum / cryptosleef if everything fails and you want to keep the pawn.

@Tynan: I think this problem is quite common and I explain that to a lot to people. Maybe add this as a reason to the death message, like "[Pawn] died of an infection. Reason: Vital body part malfunctioning." (or a better description of cause)

I posted a similiar situation to OP when I first came back to the forums a bit back for 1.0.  It definitely could use maybe a bit more explanation somehow.  Do infections cause HP loss randomly somehow though during its run up?  I've had the same situation as op but reversed.  Colonist died when he was very far ahead of beating his infection, I reloaded, second time he didn't die.  No changes what so ever, he never left the bed, nor did he get any more treatments because he was already really high at the save point.  I posted it to the forums after it happened a second time because I thought it was a bug.  One of those times the person did have a bunch of other bandaged wounds, but the other they did not.

Being it happened so far back and I was on a permadeath run I didn't have a save to provide at the time.  I haven't had it come back up again but I stopped playing perma for a while specifically so I can capture save stuff when strange things happen. lol.

[East]

Use the save file in my article on page 204 to identify the zone.

1. When an enemy attack comes, the dog comes into the base. Otherwise, it is set as the whole area excluding drugs room. (So I hate integrating zoning and animal areas.) Therefore, it is necessary to change the zone of the dog at once.

2. If enemy attacks are inside the base, I will evacuate to safe area. A little feed is there.

3. I set up a grazing animal zone. Cows, muffalo Usually eat grass outside. I set them not to go to the farm area.

4. Focus the chicken in one place.

[mndfreeze]

I haven't checked the new build yet, at work, 3 more hours.. but...

On the devilstrand discussion, I also feel like it should be above the hunted leathers for sure with the exception of Thrumbo.  With its crazy long growing time it means that is never early game viable for anyone who isn't in a super long grow biome anyway.  It dies from being too cold.   By the time you are capable of throwing down grow lights and providing the whopping 2900 power required to build an indoor soil garden you easily could have killed hundreds of megaslothes, bears, handful of thrumbo, etc.

In regards to the wool's, I think its mostly a niche item.  If you play extreme biomes like cold snap coldest on ice sheet you NEED parkas made of that stuff to survive.  Yes its not super useful in most standard plays, but we have lots of other options for armor and such for those biomes anyway.  Sometimes its nice to make a super nice wool toque for a nudest as well.  I dont think they need to change really.  The armor values seem really low but we don't need more materials with the same armor values anyway.

[Mehni]

There's redundant research on the sniper turret.

It needs Microelectronics, the auto cannon and precision rifling. The latter two also need Micro electronics. You can't fulfill those two requirements without already having microelectronics, thus having microelectronics as a research prerequisite for the sniper turret is redundant.

[ChJees]

Speaking of Areas I had at many occasions wanted the ability to Clone them. Like for when a Toxic Fallout hits I may want my animals to have the same areas as my colonists but NOT the freezer.

Also about animals in general, I found that if you tame a bunch of them. Even just Alpacas you dominate early game. Raids become a no-issue with animals until they start bringing the bigger guns.

[Greep]

Further investigation:  Dude on steam was indeed using mods and wasn't exaggerating about the raid sizes.  It struck me that there may not even be a raid limiter mod, so I guess I know what I'm doing when this branch gets a bit more stable.

In any case:  I do think it'd be a good idea if medium on b18 at least translates to medium on 1.0.  Which I don't think it quite does at the moment.

[Lanilor]

With its crazy long growing time it means that is never early game viable for anyone who isn't in a super long grow biome anyway.

With the growing time and dying of cold, devilstrand may be too much dependent on the biome.
But even on a tile with shorter growing time, you can plant it on rich soil and/or harvest before 100%. I haven't tried the extreme, but it should be possible to to that even on 20/60 growing season or less.
And that way with early research you can craft devilstrand apparel after 30 days or maybe a bit more.

The availability of leather also varies on the biome. If you play a forest, you easily have excessive amounts of it later, some other biomes are a bit rarer and extreme desert has almost no animals.

I would also prefer other limitations for it. In general I like it when not every colonist just has the same perfect equipment I can craft. Imo it fits the style of rimworld to have limited resources and make the best out of it, so one pawn gets the leather duster of rhinoleather I could get, while the next gets something else ...

[Madman666]

Even devilstrand won't be much better than simple cloth if your crafter is crappy for one. I play with only 30 growdays and i can't say i am capable of having full devilstand apparel for every single colonists (even just 3-4 of them) by my first winter. You just don't get so much time. I barely make it with cloth parkas and tuques and sometimes without a good crafter i am even stuck warming my houses up with campfires and people have to go home to avoid hypothermia, since they don't all get parkas.

And also if people choose to go for researching devilstrand, that means they don't research something else, that might be way more useful, so they have to have some benefit for that - good early defensive apparel.

And by next winter i usually already have a couple greenhouses setup, but i still don't use them for devilstrand, as i need food and herbal medicine. Based on that i really don't think devilstrand needed any nerfing and neither i think it should be in line with even good leathers. Its an investment, both in labor, in growing space and in research efforts.

While getting leather comes to just chance - if a megasloth wanders in on you or not.

[Greep]

Well getting devilstrand to grow on cold biomes is nearly impossible without a greenhouse.  It isn't just the grow rate + eclipses: one cold snap and it's all gone.  I think it's better to balance devilstrand on biomes where it's sane to try and grow it 

[Ser Kitteh]

Yep! Someone on Discord mentioned to me that. 1.0 is really the first time I've actually used cryptocaskets heavily.