Unstable build feedback thread

[BlackSmokeDMax]

13 of my chickens were stricken with plague.
I had to throw a bunch of colonists on Handling duty to keep them feed.
Apparently they thought the best idea was to feed the chickens the simple meals instead of the kibble.

I can't forbid the meals without also denying the colonists their food source...
I can't help but think that colony animals should have a filter list for what foods handlers are allowed to feed them.

This is a subject I'd like to see adressed too. For exemple, this can happen with colonists too. I started making Pemmicam and Survival Packages to have a stockpile of food that dosen't expire quickly.

My colonists started picking this meals instead of the Simple/Fine meals that I keep in my fridge. It is really frustrating, I wish I could assign a type of meal or make these two type meals only consumed as a last resort.

This is really hard to reproduce, and I don't know if it's a issue with the meal radius or meal preference. For meal preference I would try something like:

Higher number, Higher priority:
Disgusting raw meat - 1
Human Meat - 1
Kibble - 1
Raw animal meat - 2
Raw vegetable - 3
Pemmicam and Survival Meal - 4
Raw fruit (no penalty) - 4
Simple Meal - 5
Fine Meal - 6
Lavish Meal - 7

I believe that this order should take place regardless of distance of the meal. For animals, I'd just revert this numbers so that Kibble and raw food comes first.

Really hope something like this makes the 1.0 version and is just not important enough to worry about it right this instant.

[spidermonk]

New traps feel pretty strong on the forest biome. Randy, naked, survival struggle, end of the first year. I had 5 man raid vs my 6 colonists + a chased refugee. Two of the raiders just walked randomly into some wooden traps I built around corners of my buildings. Another one got shot and the rest fled. The raids feels pretty weak so far, raiders are just whacked by the traps. I got only one hit, one of the raiders missed so badly that he hit my guy four squares away from the target right in the heart, good thing she wore a flak vest.

Here is a screenshot with trap layout:

[attachment deleted due to age]

[EvadableMoxie]

A few quick points based on my recent play experience:

- On long range mineral scanning: so it needs research? But it's not showing a progress? And the documentation says it just happens randomly... So do I need someone at the station? There may be a patch note explaining it but that cannot be the solution for the people in game.

The description hasn't been updated yet. You need someone to work the mineral scanner. The job type is research and it uses the intellect skill.  It no longer happens automatically, and at high research with a researcher using it constantly you can pretty consistently get deposits every few days.  I'm not sure if multiple ones worked by multiple researchers speeds things up.

[DubskiDude]

New traps feel pretty strong on the forest biome. Randy, naked, survival struggle, end of the first year. I had 5 man raid vs my 6 colonists + a chased refugee. Two of the raiders just walked randomly into some wooden traps I built around corners of my buildings. Another one got shot and the rest fled. The raids feels pretty weak so far, raiders are just whacked by the traps. I got only one hit, one of the raiders missed so badly that he hit my guy four squares away from the target right in the heart, good thing she wore a flak vest.

Here is a screenshot with trap layout:

Ah, a fellow 9x9 builder. Truly a scholar and a gentleman.

[Toast]

Regarding the renamed Prosthophobe/Prosthophile traits and their descriptions, could you change "artificial body parts" to something like "enhanced artificial body parts"? I think you're trying to be inclusive of the new Archotech parts which are basically bionics+1, but the result is that it's unclear if you're also including regular prosthetics, which are definitely also artificial body parts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but those are not something either pawn type cares about.

All prosthetics are counted including peg legs. Not the upgrade they were looking for, I'm sure, but I'm not complaining

Wow, seriously? This can't be intended, can it?  "I feel so limited in my human body, if only I was a rad cyborg with A WOODEN FOOT."

- I play in arid shrubland...
- I think devilstrand is still problematic with a lower cost. The only real price you pay is the research - afterwards with the right colonist it comes free, over time.

From one arid shrubland player to another, this is because we're using a perfect biome for it. Without long growing seasons and ample soil, it's not particularly easy to keep it coming.

[AFGHANPSYCHO]

Quick question, is it suggested to start a new game with each update to ensure the new changes and such work properly, or is it fine to continue playing on an existing save that gets updated?

[spidermonk]

Ah, a fellow 9x9 builder. Truly a scholar and a gentleman.

<3

[Teleblaster18]

Debug History Graphs from Last Night:

Naked Brutality
Cassandra/Rough/Temperate Forest (Year-Round Growing) - ~200 days completed
Version 1974

Gameplay notes:

Fix: Overlapping and mis-timed raids on Cassandra.

Whew.  Had a Psychic Ship and a Siege occur at essentially the same time last night.  Glad to hear that this is fixed for 1975...it was a rough 72 hours for my guys.  1 Destroyed Spine, courtesy of a one shot by Mech Lancer, which used up my sole MechHealer Serum.  My wood traps burned like a forest fire, courtesy of a Centipede's Inferno Cannon.


-Mech Lancers still feel OP to me;  insta-limb removal or destruction when a pawn is behind heavy cover (granite walls and sandbags) feels like too common an occurence (the colonist who had the destroyed spine was in wooden Plate armor, which is the best that I can produce at the moment).  As far as I can tell, a shot-off or destoyed body part has happened at least once (and in some cases, multiple times) nearly every time I've engaged with Mech Lancers.  I'd be fine with heavy damage, but the loss of limbs still feels excessive, and there's no real counter to it until you have the resources and research to start producing bionics and prosthetics...or the silver to buy some.  Destroyed spines should be a very rare occurence, IMO...it's generally a more penalizing outcome than outright death, by a significant margin.


-One request:  is there any way to fix the "can't clean off fresh blood/dirt" issue that currently exists (and existed in B18)?  This was something that I really hoped would get addressed in 1.0, because it's maddening, and feels "gamey":  currently, a pawn has to leave the room to be able to clean off blood and filth that was generated while they were in the room.

This has an effect on gameplay:  my infirmary is usually kept 100% clean.  When bleeding colonists come in for treatment, they inevitably track in dirt and bleed all over the place, which significantly increases chances of infection.  As it stands right now, my doctors waiting on standby can't clean the fresh blood before they start treating colonists:  they have to leave the room and wait awhile before it can be cleaned.  I want to be able to get the room spotless before treatment, and right now, the game mechanics don't allow that...unless I'm missing something.

-I'm really liking the fact that animals will now instantly move to their assigned zones.

I'm eager to start in on some 1975 play: there seems to be a lot of good stuff in the most recent change.

[Copperwire]

AAR:

Naked Temp River - Randy Rough

Mostly, this run has been focused on managing wealth (8 pawns, year 3, 68.5k), banishing people freely, herding, developing colonists skills intentionally, and experimenting with a different defensive layout.  I will note that my starter pawn is a good Shield/space bartender variant - so the early stuff was pretty gentle.  Second was a decent female Raymond Wolfen .... Shield came kind and Ray came with a missing ear - married month 3 and they have been the rock on which this colony has grown.  I did buy one slave pawn out of sheer desperation for a researcher, which I usually avoid ...  Otherwise most of my pawns have come medium to low quality, though I have scored 2 with tough and 3 with fast-learner or too smart.

1. Wealth - Frequent trading and not keeping silver on hand are most of what I have been doing.  Buying stuff rather then investing in benches and making it yourself can avoid wealth - I bought spears and shield belts that way.  Most of this game before todays patch so some of my math is that it is better to trade goods for goods then goods for silver, for wealth limbo anyway, as they buy your stuff at a loss, then sell you stuff at inflated prices (basically, you went home with 1/4 value rather then 1/2 or so).  Interested in seeing how today's changes effect that.

Past that, I made a perimeter wall using diagonal walls; only thing is its not as good as a fire break, but since tiles have no wealth value it has a ring of stone floor to fix that.  Net, 1/2 wealth in walls for the same footage.  The fact that my barn of hay (which sometimes I get rid of when its overstocked by putting it on a caravan and abandoning it because you can't even gift it) counts as wealth but my barn of dead mechanoids does not ... could use some love. 

I can say that on these settings/wealth level, I have not run much risk of serious injury from any raids.  I have had 1 downed colonist, ever, and 2 minor perm injuries (finger and a scar).

2.  Banishing - I have banished 6 people so far.  3 pawns that joined, 3 I fought a raid for then banished, and turned down/ignored all rescue missions.  The mood penalties have not caused any issues.  Some of it is the wealth limbo - as it keeps expectations low, and I have weeded all pawns that are severe break risks in the process.  Lesson learned - its not that painful. 

3.  Herding - I have 15 dogs, 5 muffalo, and a boomalope.  Main issue is selling off all the puppies, as they reduce caravan speed.  I am a bit afraid each time I visit the closest colony that I will see a huge pile of lab meat, but I haven't so far.  Instead, I have the option to buy a lot of labs back.  One handler has had no issues training and maintaining that mess.  I messed with hay for the first time.  On rich soil, it has a 114% grow rate. so that is probably a waste.  The dogs/muffalo make up 10% of my wealth and I think that is relatively cheap for the amount of economic and defensive value it gives.  Among other side benefits, they get injured a lot and it has helped a lot growing a doctor (I haven't had any pawns with passion for it, but I am have managed to get one to 10 anyway).  About 4-6 animals strapped to a pawn with a pump shotgun has become my go too early game defense (not using turrets, door games, or traps this run).  At near melee, the pump does not FF a lot, even shooting into melee.  Late game, its lack of penetration against power-armor really makes it extra safe in that roll.

4.  Pawn Training -  I made an auto pistol early and it has gone from new pawn to new pawn (hunting).  I have 4 pawns with no passion and shooting skills that are 10+.  I have a 1 passion pawn who came with 7 intellect and undergrounder or whatever it is who is now intellect 19 and closing on 20 each day.  With that one researcher, I have basically everything I want done pre-ship stuff.  I made leather into clothes and wood into armor as my main sale products - mostly because it has allowed me to develop two 12+ crafters (didn't get any high skill or double passion crafters).  Basically, slow development, careful pawn selection, and a bit of micro certainly pays off in diverse skills.  The only thing I have no solve for has been social (best is a 10, came at 5/1 passion) and for that I basically recruit prisoners until they are low on resistance and release them.

5.  Defense - Diamond perimeter wall wide around the base a good bit out, one end open, stone tile two thick on that end as a fire break, and that opening set so that the ranges on all doors nearby match range on colonists weapons (sniper, bolt, bolt, AR, AR, bolt, bolt, sniper).  Wood floor also has no wealth cost, so I have experimented with flooring the "gap" and keeping an incendiary launcher on hand (stone floor around to contain it).  It works, but I stopped because it hasn't been necessary and its extra micro, though flaming people running in circles does have a very Taladage Nights comedy value.  Dogs and shotguns (also a very clean combo for sending a single colonist to hunt predators without micro).  I keep shotguns near my sniper doors who get dogs so if things get sloppy they can switch roles (they are also my medics).  AR pawns also get animals (nearest point to impact).  Lots of doors with sandbags on all sides, which get restricted when not used for defense.  A few doors with no bags and stone paths allowing efficient access out (again, floors are zero wealth, so I have come to endorse paths) in a rough spoke layout.  I walled a chunk of river for 4 watermills.  That end is probably the most vulnerable.  No problems so far .... and I have been taking the extra raids/pawn chase the whole time (pre-patch that lets you see what is coming, which made me happy to see).  No centipedes so far.  Lancers and Scythe have all been countered by letting them get to the house and coming out doors right on them with animal packs and a willingness to shoot into animal melee.

6. Oddness - I have yet to see an advanced component.  I certainly have the research done to use them.  No ships, none in caravans, space traders, or villages (and I have visited the 4 closest outlanders).  Basically, I am kind of on hold until I find 2.  I don't want to get much deeper in wealth without better gear and bionics (we could use a few) so I am kind of searching and waiting.  I wonder if adv. components are gated to appear once your own wealth level hits a certain point.

7.  Other - I have come to believe that skipping wooden walls is a win.  Some of that was a wealth comparison.  Early, I use one map room and disassemble a few more for block.  The solo starts make this a lot more possible, as well as the decrease in the penalties for barracks.  Past that, after trying the small separate rooms route for cooking and butchering, I have found a lot better success with just using a very big room with low traffic for cooking/butchering, as dirty seems to be linked more strongly to the room as a whole then to the spaces right next to the stove.  If nothing else, it makes it easier to see that its getting bad so you can micro someone to fix it.  I still get food poisoning now and again, and sometimes it is from a incompetent cook (who happens to have 9 cooking so I am not sure what incompetent means...).

Mostly, it has been a learning and experimenting run.  I am inclined to end it and try the lessons learned on higher dif.

Note - I leave load/save as an option.  Never had cause to use it this run other then when playing with the wood floors for science.

Cheers

[attachment deleted due to age]

[spidermonk]

-One request:  is there any way to fix the "can't clean off fresh blood/dirt" issue that currently exists (and existed in B18)?  This was something that I really hoped would get addressed in 1.0, because it's maddening, and feels "gamey":  currently, a pawn has to leave the room to be able to clean off blood and filth that was generated while they were in the room.

Can double that, this cleaning micro is maddening. Btw your doctor doesn't need to leave the room, it's enough just to stay there on a spot for a while, like 10 seconds or something.

[Jstank]

-One request:  is there any way to fix the "can't clean off fresh blood/dirt" issue that currently exists (and existed in B18)?  This was something that I really hoped would get addressed in 1.0, because it's maddening, and feels "gamey":  currently, a pawn has to leave the room to be able to clean off blood and filth that was generated while they were in the room.

Can double that, this cleaning micro is maddening. Btw your doctor doesn't need to leave the room, it's enough just to stay there on a spot for a while, like 10 seconds or something.

I am going to "third" this. Specifically, I want the cook to clean up the dirt on the floor so my pawns stop getting food poisoned every other meal. The food poisoning is ultra-obnoxious atm.

[Eterm]

Pemmicam and Survival Meal - 4

Do you mean nutri-meal? Survival meals are worth a LOT, they keep without refridgeration so can be stored in the hospital and are vital for caravans more than a few days. Also I think they literally sell to traders for around 40 silver so you won't want your livestock eating them!

[Oxxian]

Hey been playing the latest build on cas medium

It may just be because medium but my allies seem to think I'm desperately struggling and I'm not sure why they have left me some really shiny gifts like gold and advanced components. I have a handy cattle herd and a defensible mountain base with indoor hydroponics and chem-fuel power gen. Here's the graphs. Been holding raiders at bay with traps and micro along with the occasional summoned allies. Lost 0 colonists not had much in the way of things i felt were a big threat. Is it because of my relatively modest wealth?

[attachment deleted due to age]

[seerdecker]

-One request:  is there any way to fix the "can't clean off fresh blood/dirt" issue that currently exists (and existed in B18)?  This was something that I really hoped would get addressed in 1.0, because it's maddening, and feels "gamey":  currently, a pawn has to leave the room to be able to clean off blood and filth that was generated while they were in the room.

Can double that, this cleaning micro is maddening. Btw your doctor doesn't need to leave the room, it's enough just to stay there on a spot for a while, like 10 seconds or something.

I am going to "third" this. Specifically, I want the cook to clean up the dirt on the floor so my pawns stop getting food poisoned every other meal. The food poisoning is ultra-obnoxious atm.

It is most irritating when there's a high chance of a pawn developing an infection. Having to do this micro is annoying, and the fact that you can't order the pawn to clean the spot of blood you see on the floor makes it worst. My "solution" is to use two pawns when tending to another pawn. One to doctor, another to clean up when the UI allows me to.

[Greep]

Quick question, is it suggested to start a new game with each update to ensure the new changes and such work properly, or is it fine to continue playing on an existing save that gets updated?

Nope, just keep rollin'.  You'll just get a few errors usually.  Sometimes an update dramatically alters your playstyle so it's your call whether it's worth continuing a fort I guess, though.