Unstable build feedback thread

[Tynan]

Well, things get weird when armor classes start crossing over (e.g. jacket is better than flak) just because of quality. Quality's not that visible and it's hard to say it really makes much sense for armor on apparel anyway.

I'll look at extending these some more though, because I do agree the progression is a bit narrow.

[5thHorseman]

I pulled Luke Wilson (seriously) out of a cryosleep casket in an ancient danger and after being rescued and lying in my medical bed for a few days, he went insane because he ate Human flesh. Now, I'm not going to say he didn't but I didn't intentionally feed it to him. Everybody's starving because we just got out of a terrible toxic storm and have 0 food so maybe they resort to it even if you don't tell them to?

Anyway, I shot him because he was going to attack us (he dropped pemmican. So I seriously don't understand why he was eating a person) and now I have the option to rescue him or capture him. I was going to capture him but the game says it'll anger his faction. But he has no faction listed because he came out of a cryosleep casket from an ancient danger.

Maybe they're talking about the Screen Actors' Guild?

[robno]

For those that don't know what I'm talking about. This is for armor in B18:
        <factorAwful>0.4</factorAwful>
        <factorShoddy>0.7</factorShoddy>
        <factorPoor>0.85</factorPoor>
        <factorNormal>1</factorNormal>
        <factorGood>1.1</factorGood>
        <factorSuperior>1.3</factorSuperior>
        <factorExcellent>1.5</factorExcellent>
        <factorMasterwork>1.7</factorMasterwork>
        <factorLegendary>2.1</factorLegendary>

This is 1.0:
        <factorAwful>0.8</factorAwful>
        <factorPoor>0.9</factorPoor>
        <factorNormal>1</factorNormal>
        <factorGood>1.1</factorGood>
        <factorExcellent>1.2</factorExcellent>
        <factorMasterwork>1.4</factorMasterwork>
        <factorLegendary>1.8</factorLegendary>

Thanks for the list. I agree, awful should mean awful, not '2/3 as good as excellent'. I'd argue there are many ways armour could be awful - links could be shoddy or missing, material could be uneven, straps could be the wrong size and so misbalance the armour etc. I liked the variety of the B18 qualities - I don't think there should be uniform jumps between the qualities, more of a bell-curve type of thing.

I think poor should be brought down a bit (~0., and awful down a lot (say 0.4-0.5). Maybe shoddy isn't needed, but I feel there should be a step between good and excellent. It gives the crafting profession more flavour I think.

[Syrchalis]

While I generally don't agree with shoddy and superior adding flavor - because I believe masterful/legendary being awesome is much more flavorful - I do agree that the quality levels feel a bit secondary now.

Before 1.0 there were more quality levels and they felt more impactful and that is weird. Shouldn't the difference between less quality levels be bigger by default? I think part of that comes from a larger percentage being "below normal" and masterwork/legendary just pushing the rest downward. Simply because masterwork/legendary are supposed to be a bigger boost and feel special they are limiting what the other qualities can be, because otherwise masterwork/legendary run a bit out of hand.

This is far easier explained with an example. The way it currently is, if excellent actually gave 1.5 instead of 1.2 in armor, then masterwork would be 2.0 and legendary 3.0, which is a bit ridiculous. So in order to preserve the ratios excellent can't be that much higher than 1.0.

In other words: The ratios are the problem. Excellent Bonus * 2 = Masterwork and Masterwork Bonus * 2 = Legendary, I think those should maybe be different. Like:
        <factorAwful>0.6</factorAwful>
        <factorPoor>0.8</factorPoor>
        <factorNormal>1</factorNormal>
        <factorGood>1.2</factorGood>
        <factorExcellent>1.4</factorExcellent>
        <factorMasterwork>1.7</factorMasterwork>
        <factorLegendary>2.1</factorLegendary>

I think the important thing here is: Legendary does not need to be a huge step up from Masterwork. Masterwork is already "special" by having a particularly large gap to Excellent. If Legendary has a normal gap to Masterwork, it will still feel special, because we are so far above and beyond normal quality. You could even change it to:

        <factorExcellent>1.4</factorExcellent>
        <factorMasterwork>1.8</factorMasterwork>
        <factorLegendary>2.2</factorLegendary>

[Razzoriel]

I'll look at extending these some more though, because I do agree the progression is a bit narrow.

... or you could make every veteran happy and return with the old quality levels. At least Shoddy, since there'll be 3 "bad" qualities, Normal, 3 "good" qualities and Legendary, which should be absolute fubar stuff.

[Tynan]

Yeah Syrchalis that's along the lines I was thinking too.

[Aerial]

Maybe higher quality clothing items, at least, could provide a small "I feel pretty" mood bonus while they're in good condition?  That way the lack of differentiation in armor is offset by getting a moodlet.

[cactusmeat]

Maybe higher quality clothing items, at least, could provide a small "I feel pretty" mood bonus while they're in good condition?  That way the lack of differentiation in armor is offset by getting a moodlet.

i was thinking about something like that too. Especially with offworlders being accustomed to certain lifestyles it would be more natural if they cared to have any shred of their previous lives. Perhaps a fashionista trait that gives art skill?

OR people's beauty stat could be modified by their clothes. Or they could have small comfort bonuses just for wearing chinchilla fur.

[Madman666]

Maybe higher quality clothing items, at least, could provide a small "I feel pretty" mood bonus while they're in good condition?  That way the lack of differentiation in armor is offset by getting a moodlet.

This. I said that couple times already and i still feel that way. I mean there should be a point in getting quality clothing for everyone. The most fitting way to do it is to bolt a comfort stat to clothing quality.

[Tynan]

Maybe higher quality clothing items, at least, could provide a small "I feel pretty" mood bonus while they're in good condition?  That way the lack of differentiation in armor is offset by getting a moodlet.

This. I said that couple times already and i still feel that way. I mean there should be a point in getting quality clothing for everyone. The most fitting way to do it is to bolt a comfort stat to clothing quality.

I also think it's a good idea, it's just a matter of implementation time/complexity at this point. It sounds simple but even "simple" things like this are a serious cost to get right in a game this complex. We're currently fixing more basic stuff before adding new features.

Also, for everyone, new thread rule. When you post next, please include this information at the top of your post (just copy, paste, and fill):

Storyteller:
Difficulty:
Biome:
Hours played in the last 3 days:

This will help contextualize feedback so we know we're talking about the same thing. Thanks!

[XeoNovaDan]

...

Alright - I'm not sure if you've missed my transport pod feedback, so I'll just list the conditions along with a link to the post (very end of the previous page):

Storyteller: Cassandra Classic
Difficulty: Survival Struggle
Biome: Ice Sheet, Mountainous
Hours played in the last 3 days: Pretty much all day every day (got a lot of time to kill)

Post: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=41766.msg422156#msg422156

[Madman666]

Glad you feel that way. Knowing that you ll take it to consideration is enough. Thanks.

[Syrchalis]

I think the current amount of quality levels feels good.

Another reason Masterwork and Legendary don't have to be far apart: Masterwork is the "craftable best quality" while Legendary is the "special occasion best quality" - they don't need to be "best" and "second best", but more parallel. I guess a picture would be good.

[Tynan]

Sorry XeoND, I saw it, for sure. I read every post here and take notes. Pods are a tiny bit janky these days and we do want to improve them.

You guys vastly outnumber me so I can't respond to everything - I am sorry.

[XeoNovaDan]

It's all good - just wanted to confirm ^^