Unstable build feedback thread

[xion1088]

If it's not a bug then it makes no sense to have Building Wealth already high when you haven't even landed, even on Naked Brutality starts.

[Syrchalis]

I had that bug due to my own mod that gave terrain a work to build - that indirectly gave it a wealth value. Just like gold tiles it inflates wealth, just every tile is worth much less, but the entire map is worth something so it stacks up. Make sure it's not a mod.

[RawCode]

Is animals changed latest version?

They reject to follow master, reject to haul properly and instead just wander into raiders and die...

[RawCode]

Well, just got half colony dead from plague random event, herbal medicine, 7 skill medic, food, temperature, wooden excelent beds, still all infected died.

is such kind of challenge and tension is expected?

[xion1088]

Already did, disabled all my mods and started a new game with the same seed and same landing location, Building Wealth is still high as soon as I land, I did have an issue with a mod that made my Item Wealth rise to 21K but even after disabling that one my Building Wealth was still high, here's an example:





First image is with all my mods enabled, second is with all my mods disabled and only running Core, you can see that Building Wealth is already at 5600 and pawns haven't even landed.

[Broken Reality]

Tribal, merciless, temperate forest, 40 days in.

Building speed feels way too fast for me with wood, steel.
I feel like I was able to achieve way too much with 40 days in merciless.

Also way too much steel around, and steel gets mined super fast. I had standing reserve of 1000+ 2 weeks into game.

Food gathering speed is also bit too fast, I have tons of food and my cook is mostly wandering around even though he's feeding 5 people + 3 animals.

Crafting needs some love already, 1 skill for many different activities, still not enough useful shit to craft.

If colonists cared more about what they wore at each point ("this armor is heavy - 8" / "I need a hat -6" / "wearing nice shirt +2", "wearing shitty pants -3"), had affinity for certain weapons ("I prefer using bows -5/+5"), etc, would probably make the whole crafting game much more relevant and help make the mood game less extreme

Animals follow into building when door hugging, massive difference, boom animals fucking scary now.

Muffalos self tamed after I got first quest in tribal, not sure if intentional, but I finally did first caravan runs and that felt great!

If that could be constant that getting quests add some chance for muffaloes to self tame would be awesome.

At same time my quests are giving me rewards that are far beyond tribal level. I would prefer to be given relevant rewards or at least not be able to do a power claw surgery on day 20 as a tribal.

Maybe random thought, but why does patchleather exist if we dont need to convert all leather to it before creating clothes? is it not meant as another (correct imo) step before crafting clothes?

I find that with tribals I need 2 research benches to make decent progress, and at the same time there's still not enough for my tribe to do in between discoveries. Having animal handling be worth while, or having to actively sustain def options like fire wall / oil wall, water moat with ammunition that needs to be continually created would fill that gap of things to do.

You had a big stock of steel cause you kept mining you don't have to mine everything right away.

Crafting seems fine and definitely no -8 mood or any negative mood for wearing required gear such as armour. This won't make crafting more relevant just make armour less worthwhile and increase break risk. Colonists already have lower mood than in B18 due to changes in expectations and wealth.

Patch leather is there so you can turn the small amounts of crappy leather from birds, dogs or other small yield animals in to something somewhat useful if actually not something you would make clothes out of except if you had no other options.

I play tribal start alot and I have no clue why your colonists have so little to do. No need for more busy work.

[Broken Reality]

If it's not a bug then it makes no sense to have Building Wealth already high when you haven't even landed, even on Naked Brutality starts.

Not seen it as a bug but it happened after floors got added to the wealth calculation and the game now considers all revealed floors on a map yours. This bumps your wealth up. On crash landed and tribal starts I had just shy of 14k wealth on start so no more extremely low expectations as that stops at 10k so that's a 6 mood penalty from this change.

[erdrik]

I like that floors are part of wealth calculation now, but Im going to add my voice to those already stating it needs a bit of rebalance. I added a single 9 by 10 room of sandstone walls and floors, and completely empty it added 10k to my wealth.

As humorous as it is to imagine raiders coming to "take ma'h floors", I feel a floor's "wealth" should be based more on the room they are apart of than just their raw value.

[xion1088]

Make it so only silver, gold, jade, uranium and sterile flooring count towards wealth, like dude it's just a stone floor, why you want to kill me for it? That bad you need/want some sandstone blocks?

[The123king]

Make it so floors only in your home area count as wealth. If you don't clean it, it's not yours. Yes, it's easily exploitable by players, but i'm sure the mood penalty of a filthy base is a fair trade-off, plus it completely negates the point of building floors, as a clean dirt floor looks better than a gold floor covered in blood and vomit.

[bbqftw]

General concerns for merciless / commitment:

Shield belt baiting is absurdly strong, even more so than door peeking. At least door peeking you have the realistic chance of getting hit, shield belt baiting in cover means you're practically invincible.

I would also point out that research should probably also lead to higher raid point contribution. Every other colony / pawn improvement does, so research is one of the last areas where you can feel like you are making headway without also supralinearly increasing your difficulty. This should be removed.

[bbqftw]

Tribal, merciless, temperate forest, 40 days in.

Building speed feels way too fast for me with wood, steel.
I feel like I was able to achieve way too much with 40 days in merciless.

Also way too much steel around, and steel gets mined super fast. I had standing reserve of 1000+ 2 weeks into game.

Food gathering speed is also bit too fast, I have tons of food and my cook is mostly wandering around even though he's feeding 5 people + 3 animals.

Crafting needs some love already, 1 skill for many different activities, still not enough useful shit to craft.

If colonists cared more about what they wore at each point ("this armor is heavy - 8" / "I need a hat -6" / "wearing nice shirt +2", "wearing shitty pants -3"), had affinity for certain weapons ("I prefer using bows -5/+5"), etc, would probably make the whole crafting game much more relevant and help make the mood game less extreme

Animals follow into building when door hugging, massive difference, boom animals fucking scary now.

Muffalos self tamed after I got first quest in tribal, not sure if intentional, but I finally did first caravan runs and that felt great!

If that could be constant that getting quests add some chance for muffaloes to self tame would be awesome.

At same time my quests are giving me rewards that are far beyond tribal level. I would prefer to be given relevant rewards or at least not be able to do a power claw surgery on day 20 as a tribal.

Maybe random thought, but why does patchleather exist if we dont need to convert all leather to it before creating clothes? is it not meant as another (correct imo) step before crafting clothes?

I find that with tribals I need 2 research benches to make decent progress, and at the same time there's still not enough for my tribe to do in between discoveries. Having animal handling be worth while, or having to actively sustain def options like fire wall / oil wall, water moat with ammunition that needs to be continually created would fill that gap of things to do.

You had a big stock of steel cause you kept mining you don't have to mine everything right away.

Crafting seems fine and definitely no -8 mood or any negative mood for wearing required gear such as armour. This won't make crafting more relevant just make armour less worthwhile and increase break risk. Colonists already have lower mood than in B18 due to changes in expectations and wealth.

Patch leather is there so you can turn the small amounts of crappy leather from birds, dogs or other small yield animals in to something somewhat useful if actually not something you would make clothes out of except if you had no other options.

I play tribal start alot and I have no clue why your colonists have so little to do. No need for more busy work.

most things that are not research lead to increased raid and reduced mood due to expectation, so really he is playing optimally even if he doesn't think he is.

It is funny that the best way to improve mood is deliberately impoverishing your colonists, since most mood increasing mechanics besides drugs suffer from such massive  diminishing returns that they are actively detrimental.

In my experience, building the economy to sustain a conditional +2 mood increase from better dining and rec leads to a global 6 mood penalty, in addition to greater corpse disposal pressure. Pretty obvious lesson here.

I like that floors are part of wealth calculation now, but Im going to add my voice to those already stating it needs a bit of rebalance. I added a single 9 by 10 room of sandstone walls and floors, and completely empty it added 10k to my wealth.

As humorous as it is to imagine raiders coming to "take ma'h floors", I feel a floor's "wealth" should be based more on the room they are apart of than just their raw value.

9x10 shouldn't increase wealth that much. What did change in the most recent build is that your pawn market value now contributes to wealth. That is much more likely to contribute to a 10k spike than some flooring.

That said I don't know the sandstone block value off the top of my head.

[erdrik]

9x10 shouldn't increase wealth that much. What did change in the most recent build is that your pawn market value now contributes to wealth. That is much more likely to contribute to a 10k spike than some flooring.

That said I don't know the sandstone block value off the top of my head.

Ah, You are correct. I double checked an auto save from before the room was finished, and the wealth increase does indeed occur before that point. I had been racking my brain trying to think of what resources on the map had changed without realizing something may have changed in the update.
My bad.

[Tynan]

Don't worry, we're adjusting expectations boundaries to compensate, it should be about the same progression as it was before, but integrating information from terrain/bionics value.

[dritter]

Is it by intention that the the Autocannon turret can hit things within its dead zone?  Because when I was defending a raid, it fired off two volleys and, not even joking, in the first volley to took off one of my colonists arms at the shoulder, and then did the same in the 2nd volley to another colonist.  I had put sandbags in front of it with the intention that I would keep my colonists fairly close to the turret so when the enemies closed the gap and the turret wasn't able to aim at them anymore, I wouldn't be at risk of losing it since its fairly expensive.  I'm kind of disappointed that I can't actually put and people in front of it, even though, logically, it shouldn't be able to hit them within its dead zone.